AIBU to ask how "coloured" and "of colour" differ?

[JohnAndMichaelsSister]

I've hesitated all day before posting this, because it's a sensitive subject and I don't want to offend anyone. But I need to know the answer, so as not to unintentionally offend anyone in future!

I turned on the radio this morning (Today on Radio 4) to hear that the FA chairman Greg Clarke has had to resign for using the term “coloured footballers”. Then Dame Heather Rabbatts, in talking about it, used the phrase “person of colour”.

How can “coloured” be offensive and “of colour” not be?

To me, logically, both seem offensive. Both imply that to be white is “the norm”, and lump together everyone else in the world who is of any other colour as somehow departing from this “norm”.

And any physicist will tell you that white is formed by combining all the colours of the spectrum, while black is an absence of colour. So actually it's white people who are coloured!

Yet for a while now we have been told that “... of colour” is the correct term for everyone who isn't white.

I'm in the UK, but I know that in the US the main organisation that campaigns for the rights of black people is called The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

So I'm totally confused. I'd like some guidance (especially from black British people - I'm white) on what is offensive and what isn't.

YANBU = “coloured” and “of colour” are as offensive or inoffensive as each other.
YABU = there really is some difference between the two terms.

I have a chronic health condition. I have a disability but I am not disabled. Disabled is a defining label. Like all " disabled people " are the same. When actually everybody's needs and abilities are very different, Imagine if you had an illness and people described you as "sick". It's part of you, a feature of you, but it isn't a definition of you. That to me is why it's offensive.

I'm embarrassed for you.

CBA either way.

As for the OP's question - as others have said, it has been known for a very long time that coloured is not acceptable and it speaks volumes about a person's attitudes if they still use it.

FWIW, in the UK, my recollection is not that coloured was used c30+ years ago by well-meaning people because 'black was considered rude', rather it was used by well meaning people because many much worse words were routinely used by most white people who seemed proud to insult and/or try and put black people in their place.

There is no logical reason, it is to do with the connotations that have developed over history. Word stuff is often a bit random.

@drspouse yes, brown is a skin colour.
obviously I don't say my friend so and so is A brown, but he/she has brown skin.

I understood that coloured was unacceptable because it implied that white people had no colour - ie, were default, and "coloured" people were the variant. But obviously the same applies to "people of colour".

Perhaps the point is that "coloured" was attributed by white people whereas people of colour was a term chosen by black people.

I'm happy to use whatever term is preferred but I don't like the immediate casting into the abyss if anyone uses the wrong term. I don't think the football guy was fired for only this though.

I have explained it to my 80 year old mum and she was somewhat baffled because she was last actively working many decades ago and has lost track of this debate, perfectly understandably.

A lot of debate around this correct terminology and other similar debates around other identity issues seem designed to be a marker of who is "properly educated" and able to trade correct terms with other elites. It's a marker of being in the right tribe. It doesn't necessarily have that much to do with making sure black people have the same life chances as white people.

It's related to the history and origin of the usage and application of the terms, they are different

Coloured: Used by white people / authority of the time to describe black people, language of segregation and white people getting to have power over black people even in how they are described.

Of Color/Colour: Used by black leaders (1960s) to self describe.

So sorry but YABU there's a difference.

But interestingly language usage is never fixed ,/ always evolving and there is recent commentary and articles etc by black people not identifying with 'of colour' either e.g preferring black/brown (but not due to offense reasons).

For those who 'dont see colour' etc I highly recommend the book 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' it describes systematic racism and how this presents - and how 'not seeing skin colour' is part of the problem...

Why do posters start threads like these, then disappear?

DH and I are both in our 60s, been together 30 years. Have always referred to him as Black or Jamaican.....he’s happy with either.

He hates BAME and Person of Colour. Maybe it’s an age thing 🤷🏻‍♀️.

I get the OP's point.

I find coloured offensive, and I also find person of colour offensive. I've never been called a POC by another non-white person, but white people seem very fond of the term. Especially Americans.

If you can't figure out the difference between Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc - I'll accept East Asian. I'll also accept yellow, but only from other people with the same background. I guess it's a bit like the n word - it only feels acceptable if it belongs to you and isn't appropriated.

I'm not particularly enamoured with BAME, but I prefer it to Asian which means Indian in the UK rather than Asian. I feel more invisible as Asian than BAME, but I'd probably accept Asian in the US, purely because the word has a different meaning over there.

Well, I would really hate to be referred to as a person of colour too. It’s ridiculous. What is it actually saying? It’s of its time because it is defining people in terms of whiteness( lack of) and difference.
Terms date because of the attitudes associated with them usually though. Change the word without changing attitudes and those words will eventually be seen as offensive too.

My mum says "coloured" and it sets my teeth on edge. She's in her 80s but still...

It's got to the point where it doesn't really matter how hard you try to avoid offending anyone and to use the 'right' current terminology, you'll still be in the wrong.

@JinglingHellsBells

Years ago when my parents were young, calling anyone black was offensive and they had to say 'coloured'.

Very confusing.

and how long ago was that. why is it confusing. do you still reckon in LSD rather than decimal.

“Coloured” means you live in the 1950s.
“Person of color” means you live in America.
“BAME” means you’re in the civil service, in Human Resources, or both. God help you.
“Black” means you’re black.
“Half caste” means you’re at my secondary school in the 1990s.
“Brown” means you have good eyesight.

Tongue paralysed with indecision thus making you incapable of saying any of the above means you’re white British.

@rainkeepsfallingdown Why can Asian not refer to both Indian and Chinese- after all they are both countries in Asia- the same way as I am European.

I can’t stand saying person of colour probably because saying coloured person was such a no no when I was growing up.

I sometimes feel that these shifts in language occur to refresh the ‘othering’ of people. Oh, look how racist this group of people is (older / poorer / less educated) we must educate them...whilst the same old structures favouring white males chugs merrily on.

Caucasians never (or rarely) describe themselves as white so why would other ethnicities need to identify themselves by the colour of their skin? Actually, most "white" people are pink.

Coloured was used in the 1950s and onward, as a term for the windrush generation, and they suffered massive racism at the time. Coloured became a pejorative term, so it's just not acceptable any more that putting on 'blackface' makeup.

I do feel sorry for the old man really because he's obviously not keeping up with how society speaks and I'm sure as you get older it's harder, but really if he's in the public eye, he should be more sensitive and learn the correct terms.

@JinglingHellsBells

Years ago when my parents were young, calling anyone black was offensive and they had to say 'coloured'.

Very confusing.

It's not though, is it? My gran uses this excuse. She is in her eighties but there is nothing wrong with her brain; she just chooses not to understand.

I'm white and I don't use 'person of colour' because it's not my expression or word to own. I use black or Asian or another factual term, whatever is relevant. I also avoid mixed race, it having been brought to my attention some years ago by a black colleague, that mixed heritage is obviously less focused on race and more on ancestry and culture. I don't know how widespread that preference is though. I don't use non-white as it's just such a white-centric expression.

There used to signs saying 'no blacks, no Irish' etc. And some descriptors are considered OK in some countries and not in others. What one person thinks is offensive, another doesn't. So hardly surprising that it gets confusing. Most people don't want to cause offence but it is easy to do so.

Having the word ‘of’ in your name in its various forms eg: von, van, de, e.g. captain von trap, prince of Wales etc makes the name sound rather up market, maybe it has something to with that. It seems to elevate the description somehow.