AIBU to ask how "coloured" and "of colour" differ?

[JohnAndMichaelsSister]

I've hesitated all day before posting this, because it's a sensitive subject and I don't want to offend anyone. But I need to know the answer, so as not to unintentionally offend anyone in future!

I turned on the radio this morning (Today on Radio 4) to hear that the FA chairman Greg Clarke has had to resign for using the term “coloured footballers”. Then Dame Heather Rabbatts, in talking about it, used the phrase “person of colour”.

How can “coloured” be offensive and “of colour” not be?

To me, logically, both seem offensive. Both imply that to be white is “the norm”, and lump together everyone else in the world who is of any other colour as somehow departing from this “norm”.

And any physicist will tell you that white is formed by combining all the colours of the spectrum, while black is an absence of colour. So actually it's white people who are coloured!

Yet for a while now we have been told that “... of colour” is the correct term for everyone who isn't white.

I'm in the UK, but I know that in the US the main organisation that campaigns for the rights of black people is called The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

So I'm totally confused. I'd like some guidance (especially from black British people - I'm white) on what is offensive and what isn't.

YANBU = “coloured” and “of colour” are as offensive or inoffensive as each other.
YABU = there really is some difference between the two terms.

The difference is that "coloured" was a term used by white people to oppress people of colour, and people of colour is how people from that group choose to be called.

As a white person, I don't have to understand. I have to listen.

@Raceless

You don't need words to describe race. It's meaningless. You can say someone's actual skin colour and treat them as the individual they are.

Funny how some people who so "want to see race" have issues and take offence when someone points out their actual skin colour.

I think the 8 year old is on to something - I can't imagine for a second she doesn't see actual colour of skin. She just doesn't see race. Kudos.

But 'not seeing race' also means not seeing either the institutional racism in society or acknowledging the experiences that one part of society have which others do not.

I think you can tell the secret racists by the ones too scared to say facts comfortably like 'black' 'Asian' they're all Pussy footing around with 'erm that erm lady with the erm... Long hair. The er.... That lovely really pretty coloured lady'.... You mean the black lady sat there?

I don't agree it's racists who do so. If anything racists will call someone whatever the hell they want.

From my observation, those who pussyfoot around terms and labels as you say are mostly those who have no idea which new term is offensive and which isn't. Some find it offensive to be referred to as the black lady (even though they call themselves that) or to mention their skin colour.

There's always an upgrade of offensive words. Why won't people pussyfoot?

You don't need words to describe race. It's meaningless. You can say someone's actual skin colour and treat them as the individual they are.

But that doesn't always work. Yesterday, for example, I received an email about an arts grant fund for 'people of colour'. They had to pick something.

@percheron67

SavourSenorita. I do so agree - i do hesitate to use the word "black" in case it upsets someone or is thought offensive. I dislike the idea of hurting someone's feelings but also hate having to measure every word so carefully when i speak.

I work somewhere where white ethnicity is the minority. Very diverse and multicultural workplace and all the better for it (genuinely) there was a Dr. Very tall black guy. I retorted his name to a colleague when describing his plan of action. The colleague was like 'who's that? What does he look like?' my reply 'nice. Tall. Black dude' she recoiled in horror and gasped 'ooh be careful' (whilst looking around) I just tittered and explained her going red awkward and fawning over her more appropriate 'coloured gentleman' is far more revealing.

Don't know op. I don't think there are actually any rules. The wonderful diversity of races and ethnicities in the human race should be embraced and celebrated but the combinations are infinite so they are difficult to define, or give a name to.

I guess it’s due to the word ‘coloured’ being used in an era when being racist was rampant and never challenged. When there was segregation. But as highlighted on this thread some people dislike ‘of colour’ and BAME too. So it’s a bit of a minefield.

''of colour'' seems more empowered. But I don't know. I'd never say coloured. But I think I would have said it when I was a child. I am fifty though.

Look Up Steven Pinker and the Euphemism Treadmill

But 'not seeing race' also means not seeing either the institutional racism in society or acknowledging the experiences that one part of society have which others do not.

By that, do you mean anyone (including children) who sets their eyes on a person with brown skin (regardless of the individual's ethnicity/heritage and culture) should automatically see oppression, racism, underprivilege and mustn't forget that is what the brown-skinned person represents?

It’s interesting. I did see he said that he’s lived in America for quite a while and that over there saying coloured and person of colour is more common. I’d personally never use either in this country though imagine aware of it being used n America.

I’D thought that coloured was out of favour even in America but I did see a black person being interviewed on cnn the other day who described themselves as coloured. 🤷‍♀️

I hate person of colour and coloured. I'm not a fucking rainbow.

There is a difference because one was forced on black people by white people and used as an insult, and the other has been more agreed upon by various people of colour. Though of course not everyone will agree; there will always be people who object to any term as there will never be a complete consensus.

But it is true that you should use more specific terms if that's what you mean (e.g. black, rather than of colour, if you are only talking about black people). So it is sometimes used when it shouldn't be.

Also, you are wrong about white people being coloured, because that only works with light (i.e. the visible electromagnetic spectrum). Whereas people's skin tones derive from melanin, and the more melanin you have, the darker your skin tone is (like using more pigment in paint to get a darker tone). So the terminology is accurate in that sense.

CountFosco the point of that hope is that there would be no need to differentiate any oppressed groups based on race because oppression would not exist.

And yes, as a white person I don’t describe white people as white. I would say brown hair, tall whatever... and yes I also try to not describe someone as Asian, black etc. but as Im in a part of the country where white people are very much the majority that can also seem very forced, and frankly odd, virtue signalling?

@HeIsAVeryBadBoy

You don't need words to describe race. It's meaningless. You can say someone's actual skin colour and treat them as the individual they are.

But that doesn't always work. Yesterday, for example, I received an email about an arts grant fund for 'people of colour'. They had to pick something.

Because some people still want to be called 'people of colour' and those are the loudest voices. They're respecting people's wishes. Can't blame them.

Mate, if you don’t know the difference between using the term person of colour and coloured, you are one big, raging racist. I think this might just be the tread that pushes me to leave MN. Incidentally, a person of colour will refer to themselves as so, the latter not so much.

@Raceless

You don't need words to describe race. It's meaningless. You can say someone's actual skin colour and treat them as the individual they are.

Funny how some people who so "want to see race" have issues and take offence when someone points out their actual skin colour.

I think the 8 year old is on to something - I can't imagine for a second she doesn't see actual colour of skin. She just doesn't see race. Kudos.

You do need words for race though because people experience racism and discrimination. So we need a word to describe these people. We also need a word to describe people of colour as they have experiences which are different to white people which need to be talked about collectively. Both positive and negative.

I've heard plenty BAME people use this term. As I've heard them say person of colour or use their specific background. So although there's always somone saying I hate the term BAME or whatever else there's people who feel the term works. I'm white and I don't think it's up to me to decide how people describe themselves but it is in me to listen when things are offensive. The term coloured had always been offensive in my lifetime, I'm 35.

It's a bit of a minefield I think, and changes over time as social context and usage changes.

What annoys me is people trying to give a linguistic rather than cultural explanation, e.g. "Saying coloured people is wrong because all skin has colour." Well, black people don't really have black skin, and white people don't have white skin either, so where does this kind of explanation get us?

Coloured is offensive, it was used on signs in the US, to segregate people.
South Africans use it to describe people of mixed heritage as opposed to black ! Hmm , another way of segregation!

I don't personally mind BAME as a term, there are more people than those who are 'pure' black or brown in our world. I also see myself as dark brown, not black.

However, most people would agree being black is a cultural identifier.
The Black and Minority Ethnic term reminds people of being inclusive of all people whatever their racial or cultural background.

If you do your family tree, you might find surprises, but it doesn't negate who you are as a person.

In the UK, we are not Americans, so people of colour, doesn't work.
Besides, all people are people of colour.
🐞

Blanca I don’t think the OP is saying that coloured is ok - they’re just asking how is person of colour any different ie not equally offensive.

It's very telling how uncomfortable people are with describing or staying their friends/colleagues / fellow human's race. Do you not think black, Asian, non white people pick up on your discomfort? All the bending over backwards to comment on braided or afro hair (to prove you're sooo not racist) all the preceeding of lovely desriptive words 'gentleman' 'lady' it's patronising and awkward. What's wrong with just stating a fact like you would about a white person. Why be different? Yes race is sometimes used to describe minority ethnic groups because in a majority white country it stands out as a desriptive difference. I'm sure most people get that! If I went to Ethiopia I'd probably get desribed as 'white' because it is a difference to note. It's not a prejudice. Just treat everybody normally! If you're in no way uncomfortable around difference then act bloody normal. If you use an out of date term with good intentions you won't mind be corrected!

We also need a word to describe people of colour as they have experiences which are different to white people which need to be talked about collectively. Both positive and negative.

Once again, "people of colour" have different experiences so no, you don't need ONE word to lump everyone in one group and decide they've all experienced the same things and all think alike.

Some people like those terms, some don't. You can't listen to one side without listening to the other. Who am I kidding? Yes you can.

Coloured is a racist and offensive term full stop - I can't believe anyone with half a brain would think otherwise 🙄

“Person of colour” centres “person”. It is also a term that was offered up by the demographic to which it refers

In the US. I live in a community in the UK which has a large black and mixed race community (70% I think), i am told that “of colour” is not used in the Uk as it’s basically interpreted and “not white”.

Dc at school just refer to skin colour. Black, brown, and the descriptor is comparative, “Mia, with black skin but not as black as Mia Smith”

As they got older it became Mia, mixed race, not Mia whose parents are both Ghanaian so has very black skin.

I find sticking to a physical descriptor rather than defining by ethnicity is least likely to cause offence. I’ll usually only use mixed race as well if I know both parents are actually different ethnicity.

I find it interesting the differences between the US and UK around race. We’d never say “african british”, for example. I have heard many Black americans are rejecting “african american” because most are now many generations away from africa, and are american, not a different kind of american that needs defining by country of origin.

The term ‘coloured’ is offensive because it was a term used under apartheid. And also because it’s an adjective used as a noun, which dehumanises people and reduces them to a characteristic.

‘Person of colour’ centres the fact that you are talking about a person who has an attribute.