To think the vaccine shouldn't be given out by age criteria?

[studychick81]

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

@Rachie1973

I’m a care worker but won’t be having it! Someone can have mine lol

Unless you have a good medical reason for this, this is a despicable attitude towards your residents.

It depends if they have refreshed their understanding of high risk and moderate risk

Type 1 diabetics are either classed as high or moderate risk depending on their control of their illness, yet covid treats them almost the same

From what I have read the vaccine is 90% effective. If I was CEV I would want a hgher proportion of herd immunity before I started living life as normal. I am bottom of the list anyway and fine with that.

Might be controversial but I don't understand why care Home residents would get it above vulnerable people out in the community. If the care home staff get vaccinated, surely the risk of residents picking it up is minimal?

@Hercwasonaroll

There's no evidence because the government isn't collecting it.

Teachers have died from covid. The prevalence of the virus is higher in teachers than the rest of the population.

What is the source for prevalence in teachers being higher?

@GlowingOrb

There are people who have spent their entire lives studying disease transmission. I want those experts to decide how to distribute the vaccine. We as the general public should shut up and listen to people who know what they are talking about.

This.

I'm not sure I've ever read another Mumsnet thread where I've been so genuinely shocked at people's (some, not all) selfishness.

@Madwife123

As a frontline NHS worker I hope that criteria is changed. I don’t agree for one second that young fit and healthy NHS staff should receive the vaccine before the CEV people. I would start with those, then elderly people and then move on to those at risk due to their profession. Protect the ones most likely to die should be the first priority.

But realistically this is going to be a simultaneous roll out, with different supply streams for the different settings.

Also, there is considerable transmission of Covid within hospitals, likely to be being spread by asymptomatic staff, so vaccinating you first makes good sense.

Also, also, it’s a bit like the “put your own oxygen mask on before helping others” message you get on a plane. If you’re immune, you’re well and at work.

Thank you for doing what you do.

@gungholierthanthou

Might be controversial but I don't understand why care Home residents would get it above vulnerable people out in the community. If the care home staff get vaccinated, surely the risk of residents picking it up is minimal?

Because the vaccine isn’t 100% effective. It was expected to be about 50%. And also some care workers are evidently going to refuse it.

Ultimately it will take time to roll this out even to the highly vulnerable, of which there are millions. Its pretty obvious now that old age and its associated frailties are the key risk factor surely?

The figures show that death rates go up dramatically with age and (some, specific) co-morbidities (so CEV - hayfever doesn't count), so they are the priorities. They are 100% the ones we're trying to protect.

Then people who might pass on the virus to CEV/older people, so carers and NHS.

Makes perfect sense to me.

@theThreeofWeevils

In giving it to health staff first, hopefully any side-effects will be picked up on

Thought that needed to be reread in all of its entitled glory.

"Work your arses off and be guinea-pigs, and then I might condescend to be vaccinated myself"

Any sane roll-out of a vaccine must surely prioritise HCPs/care staff and then the most vulnerable demographic. Just to have a functioning health system at all.
Oh, and teachers should be prioritised above other vulnerable groups, imo.
But - guinea-pigs and cannon fodder. Right.

I am not an HCP, nor am I a teacher (your kids came home alive? There's your proof of the latter).

Right so a perfectly fit and healthy 25 yo teacher should get it before my dad who has leukaemia and is 75!? What world do you live in? Please readdress your priorities in life. I bet your tune would change if it was found a member of your family was CV.

It's not about who is most likely to get it, it's about how is most likely to DIE or be in hospital from it.

Teachers should be on there to stop staff shortages and schools closing. But certainly not before number 6.

Call me a cynic but it's largely the older generation who will be the ones voting Tory in the next election .

ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid

@AllTheUserNamesAreTaken I've literally just linked that data upthread.
ONS data shows teachers at the same risk of infection as health and social care staff - first survey done since schools were opened.
Two points:

1. It's interesting the government have phrased it as 'no more at risk' suggesting they thought initially teachers might be even more at risk than health and social care staff and we should be relieved it's the same risk!!
2. That doesn't necessarily mean teachers should get the vaccine, as the reason for health and social care staff getting it is to protect vulnerable patients. But it does mean the argument that 'teachers aren't at risk' is debunked.

However they prioritise it, someone will be unhappy. I’m in group 8 of your list and I don’t resent anyone getting it before I do.

I don't disagree that school staff should be a priority.. but if MN is a true representation then a lot of school staff will also be older, vulnerable etc. And be vaccinated in that category earlier anyway won't they?

My list would be

1. All NHS staff and other hospital/medical staff
2. Care home workers and care home residents
3. All those who had to shield
4. Over 75s
5. Teachers and nursery staff
6. 65-75s
7. The rest somehow!!!

Sorry if I’ve missed a major group!!!

There’s always going to be someone who’s not happy.

I think they have it correct, over 80’s and health care/social care workers should be vaccinated first.

I agree with the care worker who says she won’t be getting it, why should anyone be forced into having it? I’m sure most of the people she cares for will have had the vaccine anyway. I am a support worker/care worker and won’t be getting it, the person I care for will be offered the vaccine and I don’t work in a home (not in contact with many people). No one should be made to have a vaccine.

Teachers should be offered the vaccine and I’m sure they will be. I don’t see the need for children to be vaccinated first unless they have underlying conditions.

What about the risks to the under 50's of long Covid? It's all gone very quiet on that. Did JVT bring it up yesterday?

@gungholierthanthou

Might be controversial but I don't understand why care Home residents would get it above vulnerable people out in the community. If the care home staff get vaccinated, surely the risk of residents picking it up is minimal?

Don't you think the residents should be able to see their families as soon as we can make it safe?

Then age related including non F2F NHS and teaching and lecturing staff (ie, the lazy Buggers who hid).

Excuse me? Lazy buggers who hid? I can't speak for teaching or lecturing staff, but at my NHS Trust there were a number of clinicians who would usually have been frontline and patient facing but due to having to shield weren't allowed to do their usual job and had to wfh. Others who were able to do their patient facing jobs from home via video or telephone did so because the government said they should and the Trust encouraged them to to reduce the number of people on site. None of these people were being lazy and none of them hid. Plenty of them felt incredibly guilty about not being able to work on site and face to face as they usually would.

Sorry if I’ve missed a major group!!

Police, social workers, prisoners and prison staff, probation staff, all boarding school staff, fire brigade and all first responders, the military

All of whom need to get close to people, go into their homes, deal with the vulnerable, and/or live in large groups

Emergency services, front line hospital staff and care home workers should be first.

I’m not sure of your source but I was on a call yesterday where the roll out of the National programme was being discussed. The supply chain logistics aren’t even in place yet. There are no agreed criteria and priorities yet, unless it’s been decided outside of PHE and NHSE.

The list isn't set in stone , it's bound to be tweaked and altered.