To think the vaccine shouldn't be given out by age criteria?

[studychick81]

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

@ShatnersWig

In addition to the fact that the vast majority of those who get severe issues from Covid are the elderly and that's what clogs up the NHS, a large proportion of the elderly have been more or less prisoners in care homes since March, many have not been able to receive visitors as some care homes have yet to resume visits. Or when they have, they have been very few and far between and behind a giant sheet of plastic. It's seriously like a prison visit. Some basically sat in their rooms for weeks on end and watching their friends drop one after the other and wondering if they'd be next.

Too fucking right they should be first on the sodding list.

Yes

@ShatnersWig

In addition to the fact that the vast majority of those who get severe issues from Covid are the elderly and that's what clogs up the NHS, a large proportion of the elderly have been more or less prisoners in care homes since March, many have not been able to receive visitors as some care homes have yet to resume visits. Or when they have, they have been very few and far between and behind a giant sheet of plastic. It's seriously like a prison visit. Some basically sat in their rooms for weeks on end and watching their friends drop one after the other and wondering if they'd be next.

Too fucking right they should be first on the sodding list.

Has anyone said they shouldn’t?

@AldiAisleofCrap

I am CEV and find it bizarre a healthy 65/66 year would receive the vaccine before myself.

Maybe it is not being given to the extremely vulnerable first becuase not enough is known about how they will react to it. The clinical trials are not that detailed. It needs to be piloted on those with shorter remaining lifespans first as the risk/benefit ratio for this group is better.

I think the clinically extremely vulnerable (whatever their age) should have priority. It doesn't seem right that someone in their 90s should receive it before someone who is very vulnerable in their 20s.

Teachers carried the same risk of infection as other key workers except the latter are now allowed to wear and are provided with PPE now - teachers are not allowed to wear masks and no masks are worn in the classroom which is poorly ventilated with up to 30 pupils - this puts teachers at a high risk of infection without the means to protect themselves. Note Ofsted personnel won't enter classrooms because of the Covid risk.

Gosh, how selfish : “I am CEV and find it bizarre a healthy 65/66 year would receive the vaccine before myself”

I am “CEV” too (in fact just got a call from consultant an hour ago ya boo sucks) . What on earth makes some people think they should storm to the front of the queue?

Can you just imagine some of the MN posters on The Titanic?! They would have trampled over anyone and everyone and commandeered a lifeboat each.

With the speed of vaccine development have tests been made on pregnant women.
Health care staff may be pregnant or planning pregnancy.
Not a problem with the over 60s.

classroom which is poorly ventilated with up to 30 pupils

Gosh our local secondary school has all the doors and windows thrown open. Bloody freezing as well. It's certainly well ventilated. The kids are all in thermals, hats and gloves. Thought that was the guidance for all schools.

Has anyone said they shouldn’t?

I dunno, I didn't keep notes on every post on the thread as I read it. But the way the initial question is worded sort of implies it and the way others are bending over backwards to promote teachers just leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth.

There've been other threads about how the worst affected by the lockdown is young people. And while I get they've missed out on some serious education, they haven't gone through what the elderly have.

@IrmaFayLear

Gosh, how selfish : “I am CEV and find it bizarre a healthy 65/66 year would receive the vaccine before myself”

I am “CEV” too (in fact just got a call from consultant an hour ago ya boo sucks) . What on earth makes some people think they should storm to the front of the queue?

Can you just imagine some of the MN posters on The Titanic?! They would have trampled over anyone and everyone and commandeered a lifeboat each.

It's really quite embarrassing to read, isn't it? (I'm also CEV!)

I suppose what about me makes a change from what about the teachers though. Bit of variety...

The fucking thing isn't even finalised and/or starting to be rolled out...and already people are elbowing each other out of the way.

See also: people not realising the vaccine is for the whole world, not just the U.K. sorry, not just teachers in the U.K.

I fall into the last category on this list and therefore the lowest priority (fair enough) so will not be offered the vaccine for a long time.

However, I still do not want to get COVID. I'd like to be able to work from home and keep away from public spaces until I do get the vaccine, whenever that is.

I hope that's possible and we're not expected just to get back to normal even though we're not vaccinated as really, what will have changed?

No teachers should not be on that list.

There have been several good worldwide studies with data from over 9 million people that show that neither teachers, nor parents with children living with with them are at an increased risk of catching Covid. In fact, people living or working with children have shown to have a slightly decreased risk of serious or fatal cases of Covid, due to previous exposure to common coronavirus’s such as the common cold and increased hygiene practices that accompany caring for children generally.

These studies aren’t splashed all over the media. Not because there is a conspiracy and the government want people not to know the REAL truth like a PP mentioned, but because tabloid journalism relies on click bait ads and scary headlines to fire people up.

I can’t even add links to the studies because they are behind paywalls for decent journalism you have to pay for or academic journal libraries, again, you have to subscribe to.

I would have done:

Clinically extremely vulnerable people
Care home residents
Over 80’s
NHS / care home staff
clinically vulnerable people
Key workers who can’t work from home
And then in defending age order

That way the ones most likely to die go first, then the ones most likely to spread it to those most likely to die. Most lists seem to forget about clinically vulnerable people who just missed out on being extremely clinically vulnerable. They should also receive some priority over healthy adults.

Definitely hospital/emergency services staff should be getting the vaccine first along with care home staff and residents.

I think No 2 should be key workers like teachers, shop workers, delivery drivers, food production workers then those on the CV list who were advised to shield. Then age order downwards.

We need these people out working before we need 60 - 100+ year olds out and about who can otherwise stay at home.

I for one am quite glad I’ll be much later in line for it. Long term effects are going to be pretty much unknown.

@LockdownLayabout - could I just point out that 60-67 year olds are mostly likely still working as their pension has not yet kicked in. Also this age group are likely to be at the pinnacle of their career as senior surgeons, judges, company directors, senior military, etc. I can't see them staying at home.

It's important to realise there are a number of different reasons to vaccinate people:

1. To stop someone catching a disease which is likely to seriously harm/kill them.
2. To prevent someone catching a disease then infecting others.
3. To prevent staff catching a disease and therefore going off sick.

Vaccinating NHS staff against influenza is largely motivated by
3) Avoiding staff sickness.

The priorities for a Covid-19 vaccine will be a) reducing deaths then b) reducing the risk of NHS & care home staff spreading Covid or being off sick. A teacher (or other public facing employee) who is not clinically vulnerable themselves, and does not work with vulnerable people will be lower down the list to get a vaccine.

@Stripesnomore

I am glad MN wasn’t around when people were trying to get on life boats on the Titanic.

The decision should be left to experts.

Ah....because teachers .....

OK MagicSummer , I should have clarified! Of course there will be key workers over 60, and they should come before the general populace of over 60’s.

@studychick81

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

It’s by age because if there are problems with and people die or get sick then the initial impact would be confined to those who might have died soon anyway. This vaccine hasn’t been tested long enough and the government knows it.

@Simarilion

It's important to realise there are a number of different reasons to vaccinate people: 1) To stop someone catching a disease which is likely to seriously harm/kill them. 2) To prevent someone catching a disease then infecting others. 3) To prevent staff catching a disease and therefore going off sick.

Vaccinating NHS staff against influenza is largely motivated by
3) Avoiding staff sickness.

The priorities for a Covid-19 vaccine will be a) reducing deaths then b) reducing the risk of NHS & care home staff spreading Covid or being off sick. A teacher (or other public facing employee) who is not clinically vulnerable themselves, and does not work with vulnerable people will be lower down the list to get a vaccine.

Agreed. Most teachers are not off sick because they are ill with COVID, they are off because they are self isolating as a precaution. They are self isolating because they may have come into contact with the virus and may therefore be at risk of spreading the virus to someone vulnerable or to others who may in turn spread the virus to the vulnerable. The children they teach are not in the majority of cases vulnerable neither are most of the other teachers. Once the vulnerable have been vaccinated there will be no need for teachers to self isolate as a precaution. Schools will go back to normal. I am school staff.

School staff who have contact with students aren’t all teachers

It’s by age because if there are problems with and people die or get sick then the initial impact would be confined to those who might have died soon anyway. This vaccine hasn’t been tested long enough and the government knows it.

Don't be ridiculous.

I for one am quite glad I’ll be much later in line for it. Long term effects are going to be pretty much unknown.

As are the long-term effects of Covid 19. I'll go for the option that hasn't already killed over a million people.

@Belladonna12

It’s by age because if there are problems with and people die or get sick then the initial impact would be confined to those who might have died soon anyway. This vaccine hasn’t been tested long enough and the government knows it.

Don't be ridiculous.

The problem with this “idea” is that as well as killing off the elderly, it would also kill off all of the UK’s medical staff...