To think the vaccine shouldn't be given out by age criteria?

[studychick81]

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

God the selfishness on this thread is shocking. As a PP said, its by age order as the level of risk increases with age.

I also knew there would be lots of, 'what about teacher posts'. I agree teachers should have PPE but the vaccine order seems sensible and they shouldn't be bumped up the list. DDs large secondary school has had its 1st case amongst the students, meaning 6 students have to isolate (close contacts only). They have recently piloted testing a whole year group (year 12 as 3 year 12 teachers tested positive), none of the students tested positive but 2 teachers did (who car share). The risk clearly wasn't from students.

Well l work in a care home. I'm not sure l want a rushed vaccine . No one knows long term side effects of vaccine. We live in a very low infection area. I'm pretty sure they trying it on care workers before doctors band nurses to see what happens. I'd be happy to take vaccine if maybe Boris took it first.

There have been several good worldwide studies with data from over 9 million people that show that neither teachers, nor parents with children living with with them are at an increased risk of catching Covid

And how many of those worldwide studies included the same conditions as our classrooms? No masks, no small classes, no social distancing, no money for ventilation, no testing of contacts of positive cases, discouraging of testing for children? Are they a fair comparison?

@teenagetantrums

Oh boy.

If we all had that attitude, we’d be f**ked.

And no, they’re not “trying it on care workers first” to experiment on you or whatever. Doing that would give precisely zero information on long-term benefit or harm, unless you think they’ll wait a few decades before vaccinating others.

It's a bit laughable that anyone would think teachers might be a priority. They aren't more vulnerable than the rest of the population and they don't work with people who are vulnerable. In fact they work with children who are the least vulnerable.

Noblegiraffe, you would love my dn’s school in Italy. All the kids in masks in the classroom. An adult volunteer sitting at the front. And the teacher at home coming in on zoom!

And if you have elderly conspiracy theorist anti-vaxers in your circle but you can't get vaccinated yourself it's tricky!

Blimey the selfishness on this thread is incredible. As has been said many times, the risk of this virus increases with age which is why the elderly and people who work with the elderly will presumably be prioritised. Unless teachers have very elderly pupils then they will be treated like everyone else. Luckily the experts will be making the decisions and they won’t be influenced by people whining ‘it’s not fair’.

I wonder what crossover there is between the SCHOOLS MUST STAY OPEN AT ALL COSTS crowd and the TeAcHeRs DoN't DeSeRvE a VaCcInE crowd.

Both of them seem to be driven by a desire to be arseholes to teachers so probably quite a big overlap, but actually working at cross-purposes. Add 'a vaccine' to the list of mitigation measures that can't possibly be given to teachers and the chances of SCHOOLS STAYING OPEN continues to decrease.

It’s pretty bloody obvious that the people who need vaccinating first are those most at risk of dying, and those who care for them.

The list makes eminent sense.

Not wanting to derail the current discussion, but what about vaccinating as a priority in those countries where health systems are more fragile, and (on the whole) communities are more deprived. And whose governments may not have the resources for a comprehensive programme? I would like to see more focus on how we get vaccinations to those places. What do others think?

@noblegiraffe

I wonder what crossover there is between the SCHOOLS MUST STAY OPEN AT ALL COSTS crowd and the TeAcHeRs DoN't DeSeRvE a VaCcInE crowd.

Both of them seem to be driven by a desire to be arseholes to teachers so probably quite a big overlap, but actually working at cross-purposes. Add 'a vaccine' to the list of mitigation measures that can't possibly be given to teachers and the chances of SCHOOLS STAYING OPEN continues to decrease.

Tbh Noble I am a big supporter of schools staying open but I’m a bit shocked how posters don’t deem teachers priority.

(I’m not saying the elderly are not priority or that care staff OR vulnerable people are not priority- just that teachers should be up there too before anyone jumps down my throat!)

I’d probably agree (does anyone disagree?) that essential workers such as teachers/food production workers/delivery drivers should be vaccinated above gen pop, but below older people/health workers/vulnerable.

Why on earth are people saying teachers should be high up on the list? Unless they are CEV (in which case they will be further up the list anyway) they arent at any more risk of serious illness or death than the rest of the population, and the people they work with certainly aren't. I work in education and would definitely not expect to be bumped up above people who are vulnerable, embarrassing!

What about teachers having the vaccine to protect themselves whilst hundreds of kids are filling past them every day

Teacher has vaccine = a teacher that can keep a class open.

I don’t want schools to shut. I need my kids in school.

@noblegiraffe

I wonder what crossover there is between the SCHOOLS MUST STAY OPEN AT ALL COSTS crowd and the TeAcHeRs DoN't DeSeRvE a VaCcInE crowd.

Both of them seem to be driven by a desire to be arseholes to teachers so probably quite a big overlap, but actually working at cross-purposes. Add 'a vaccine' to the list of mitigation measures that can't possibly be given to teachers and the chances of SCHOOLS STAYING OPEN continues to decrease.

Imagine a lot of crossover as I keep seeing people saying children aren’t at risk so should be in school and totally disregarding the fact that staff need to be there deserve safety measures like other workplaces.

Given how many cases in pupils and students, if people really wanted schools open they would vaccinate the children and staff first.

@LauraBassi

What about teachers having the vaccine to protect themselves whilst hundreds of kids are filling past them every day

Teacher has vaccine = a teacher that can keep a class open.

I don’t want schools to shut. I need my kids in school.

But not before those who could die!

@Dillydallyingthrough

DDs large secondary school has had its 1st case amongst the students, meaning 6 students have to isolate (close contacts only). They have recently piloted testing a whole year group (year 12 as 3 year 12 teachers tested positive), none of the students tested positive but 2 teachers did (who car share). The risk clearly wasn't from students.

I don’t think they’ll make national decisions based on data from one school.

It’s also had one known case, probably many more.

We’ve currently got 1000 kids of self isolating and 15 positive members of staff, but that’s ok because your child’s school has 1.

(I’m not saying the elderly are not priority or that care staff OR vulnerable people are not priority- just that teachers should be up there too before anyone jumps down my throat!)

Up there where though? By the time you have vaccinated the vulnerable, including people vulnerable due to age, you are down to 'general population' anyway aren't you? Who should teachers be 'trumping' exactly?

@BeyondsConstantBangingHeadache

I’d probably agree (does anyone disagree?) that essential workers such as teachers/food production workers/delivery drivers should be vaccinated above gen pop, but below older people/health workers/vulnerable.

I don’t think you can class teachers on the same risk level as delivery drivers and food production.

If one teacher doesn’t come in to school you are looking at 30 kids off school. The knock on effect of that is awful. This is what is already happening across the U.K.

What about teachers having the vaccine to protect themselves whilst hundreds of kids are filling past them every day

Protect themselves from what? For most people (and teachers are 'most people' unless they are vulnerable anyway) Covid is a relatively mild illness. They should not be getting priority above people for whom Covid could actually be very serious.

@noblegiraffe

I wonder what crossover there is between the SCHOOLS MUST STAY OPEN AT ALL COSTS crowd and the TeAcHeRs DoN't DeSeRvE a VaCcInE crowd.

Both of them seem to be driven by a desire to be arseholes to teachers so probably quite a big overlap, but actually working at cross-purposes. Add 'a vaccine' to the list of mitigation measures that can't possibly be given to teachers and the chances of SCHOOLS STAYING OPEN continues to decrease.

That’s because there is no evidence teachers are particularly vulnerable and they don’t pose a risk to a vulnerable population.

Prioritizing them isn’t following the science.

People want them teaching in person because they believe (as teachers have been saying for years) that in person teaching by skilled teachers is hugely valuable to society, essential even, just as health care and ensuring people have access to food is.

Laura, not the same risk level no, but knock on effects from illness are similar

@Duckwit

(I’m not saying the elderly are not priority or that care staff OR vulnerable people are not priority- just that teachers should be up there too before anyone jumps down my throat!)

Up there where though? By the time you have vaccinated the vulnerable, including people vulnerable due to age, you are down to 'general population' anyway aren't you? Who should teachers be 'trumping' exactly?

lumberingaboutthehouse no one has said they should 🥴

Anyone ‘could’ die @lumberingaboutthehouse isn’t that the very nature of the beast.