To think the vaccine shouldn't be given out by age criteria?

[studychick81]

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

It doesn't matter that they know their risk of dying is much higher, surely?

Of course it does. What do you think vaccination’s for? You protect people who stand a high chance of it being fatal ahead of those likely to experience a mild illness. Or at least you do in any sane world.

Oh secret I didn't mean you were being rude with "the vulnerable" I agreed with your post and only quoted your post because I wanted to say AIBU as a joke

Sorry should have made that clearer! There are many knobbish selfish and "othering" posts on this thread but yours wasn't one of them

@IrmaFayLear

The programme should - and I believe is - being designed to reduce hospital admissions so we can resume a normal health service. That means elderly first. Not because they are more valuable than anyone else. No one cares or should care about Individuals. This is a mass programme. Obviously healthcare workers are part of this plan too.

The elderly and vulnerable to covid people are also a priority because they too will block up hospitals.

It’s irrelevant how much you care or worry about yourself/your mum/your child. Tough, but that’s how it has to be.

This.

@MarinPrime. Matt Hancock confirmed today that the vaccine is adults only. And that, of course, if it works it will only prevent the individual from getting the worse symptoms (like the flu virus does). Until it's out in the community there's no way of knowing if it will work like an 'umbrella' vaccination, nor how often we have to have the vaccination. The thought is that you'll have to have two injections, 21 days apart (at least that's what they said on the lunch time news - my only source before anyone asks!)

What isn't clear with regard to children is what the thoughts are about children who have underlying health conditions. My son has a heart condition, he has someone in his class who has type 1 diabetes and has been told by her consultant to do part time schooling. So, if they can't get a vaccination, what happens to her chances in exams etc if she can't attend full time school? There are many children with illnesses like leukaemia, kidney or heart problems, brain tumours (like a friend of DS) who are semi shielding or vulnerable and the vaccine doesn't appear to be part of the strategy for them - because 'most' children don't get bad symptoms.

Let's hope they get the under 12 age group sorted out soon.

Why do some people think teachers should be a special group? Surely they just go on the list same as everyone else. Vulnerable or older teachers will get priority due to their age or vulnerability.

Exactly, rorosemary. I feel I’m banging my head against a brick wall. Still people think that the whole caboodle, lockdowns etc was about protecting certain people as opposed to stopping them bringing down the whole healthcare system.

In Italy there was no soft soaping. Older and vulnerable people were told straight to stay in to prevent hospital overload.

...A lot of us already know that we would not be ventilated or receive other interventions that a "healthy" person would. So we are not going to use up resources, it's just how it is and I'm being realistic...

I wouldn't want to be admitted to hospital, be ventilated etc. either.
But I'd still need help from the NHS as would want to be "made comfortable" at home and have pain relief and help when I'm frightened and struggling for breath.
Even if I wanted to brave it out alone I couldn't put my family through that.
So I'll be having the vaccine when offered.

Why do some people think teachers should be a special group? Surely they just go on the list same as everyone else. Vulnerable or older teachers will get priority due to their age or vulnerability.

Other countries have plans to vaccinate teachers to avoid schools / education of children and the economy being decimated. That's why.

I'm not a teacher, but it makes sense to me to put them somewhere on the list after vulnerable and elderly have been vaccinated.

[quote LondonJax]@MarinPrime. Matt Hancock confirmed today that the vaccine is adults only. And that, of course, if it works it will only prevent the individual from getting the worse symptoms (like the flu virus does). Until it's out in the community there's no way of knowing if it will work like an 'umbrella' vaccination, nor how often we have to have the vaccination. The thought is that you'll have to have two injections, 21 days apart (at least that's what they said on the lunch time news - my only source before anyone asks!)

What isn't clear with regard to children is what the thoughts are about children who have underlying health conditions. My son has a heart condition, he has someone in his class who has type 1 diabetes and has been told by her consultant to do part time schooling. So, if they can't get a vaccination, what happens to her chances in exams etc if she can't attend full time school? There are many children with illnesses like leukaemia, kidney or heart problems, brain tumours (like a friend of DS) who are semi shielding or vulnerable and the vaccine doesn't appear to be part of the strategy for them - because 'most' children don't get bad symptoms.

Let's hope they get the under 12 age group sorted out soon.[/quote]
The Pfizer vaccine has only just started trials on over 12s, but the Oxford vaccine trials have included children from the beginning.
Ds's paediatrician is hopeful for a vaccine, and I guess it may that different vaccines may target different age groups (as the flu vaccine does now). I really hope so...remote learning with 10 year old ds now and shielded from March to August....I'm holding onto the fact he might have a relatively normal start to secondary next Sept!

@Pedallleur

experience tells me that list wont apply. if you've got money just go and see a private doctor who will administer the vaccine for a reassuringly large fee. Football clubs and others have access to private healthcare so you can be sure they'll be lining up.

How do private vaccinations affect the supply chain for the NHS? Are the two entirely separate?

We paid for our flu jabs as although we're both over 50, so would eventually have been on the NHS list to get them free it would have been quite some time before they got to us. (My very elderly mother hadn't even been offered hers - eventually got asked to book it in for tomorrow, but she has now tested positive for COVID so can't get it!)

Never had a flu jab before, but this seemed like the year it was sensible to do it.

I'm not fundamentally opposed to paying for a COVID vacc, but am not sure whether this is ethically dodgy and is actually 'jumping the queue' or not.

Keeping schools open is imperative to the economy. In the current situation where teachers are not allowed to wear masks or be able to SD - yes they should be given priority.

They are just as important as front line workers.

@LauraBassi

Keeping schools open is imperative to the economy. In the current situation where teachers are not allowed to wear masks or be able to SD - yes they should be given priority.

They are just as important as front line workers.

Front line healthcare workers are being given the vaccine to protect their patients and to protect our hospitals for everyone. These patients are the most vulnerable in society. The staff are not being given the vaccine for their own protection but for those they care for.

Evidence shows time and time again that children are not amongst those most likely to die of Covid or need ventilation. It’s not children that are being put in intensive care and taking up hospital beds, it’s those with pre-existing conditions, the elderly and care home residents.

I agree teachers should be allowed PPE. I was a school teacher, now a lecturer and we do have PPE and on campus testing. I think schools should have similar testing procedures as care homes to identify outbreaks. However, I do not think teachers pose anywhere near as significant a risk or life threat to their students as healthcare workers pose to the ECV/Elderly etc. Therefore healthcare workers absolutely must be prioritised above teachers. Teachers are not killing children in their thousands!

Well it's the fact that the older you are the more likely to are to be affected if you get covid. These take up more space in hospitals and take more resources than a younger patient who can fight the infection without the need for hospitalisation.

But all key workers should be prioritised.

If it's being done in age order (as well as frontline nhs/carers), my suggestion would be to break it down like so:

1. Age 80+ or age 75-80 with a clinical vulnerability (such to require a 'flu vaccine, but not need to shield) or age 70-80 with ECV
2. Age 70-80 or age 65-70 with a clinical vulnerability or age 60-70 with ECV

Etc

FWIW I'm under 40 and ECV so I haven't bumped myself up the list with this idea

If teachers, pupils and schools could get tested immediately and have access to PPE it would be a whole different ballgame. But the reality is that bubbles are bursting, classes are being sent home and schools in some areas are closing due to teacher sickness.

Evidence shows time and time again that children are not amongst those most likely to die of Covid or need ventilation. It’s not children that are being put in intensive care and taking up hospital beds, it’s those with pre-existing conditions, the elderly and care home residents

I’m fully aware of that. Not sure why you had to suggest I was saying teachers are killing 1000s of children 🥴

And no where in my post did I suggested that teachers should get priority over front line care staff.

However, schools staying open is a priority for many many reasons so teachers need the vaccine for themselves. And yes I do think they are a priority- right up there with elderly and care staff.

'Teachers are not killing children in their thousands!' Clearly they are not, and I don't think anyone is saying that teachers should be top of the list.

However, if you look at how Covid is impacting education as a whole, so many pupils and staff members have to isolate for 14 days if there is a confirmed case. I work in a school and our main issue is staffing, and I know for a fact that it's a major issue in many, many schools. We can't have schools open if there is not enough staff.

Unless there is a reduction in the period of isolation, or if the guidelines drastically change when someone has been in close contact with a confirmed case, then I'm afraid that some schools will have no option but to close down. I think this is why some are calling for teachers and school staff to be vaccinated early-ish (but not before the highly vulnerable or elderly, or NHS/care staff).

Front line healthcare workers are being given the vaccine to protect their patients and to protect our hospitals for everyone. These patients are the most vulnerable in society. The staff are not being given the vaccine for their own protection but for those they care for

In august when I checked the NHS stats there was around 20,000 NHS staff off work due to isolation due to covid or covid symptoms or covid exposure. They need the vaccine not just to protect others but to also protect themselves and to be in work where they are needed.

Today is a happy day. A vaccine has been developed for a deadly virus. A massive achievement. And the emphasis on here is how unfair it is that teachers are not first in the queue. Unbelievable

Teachers are first in the queue, so long as they're over 80 :)

Education is important too.

@derxa

Today is a happy day. A vaccine has been developed for a deadly virus. A massive achievement. And the emphasis on here is how unfair it is that teachers are not first in the queue. Unbelievable

I don’t think anyone has said teachers need to be first in the queue.

But keeping teachers well enough to teach a class is pretty vital.. no?

In addition to the fact that the vast majority of those who get severe issues from Covid are the elderly and that's what clogs up the NHS, a large proportion of the elderly have been more or less prisoners in care homes since March, many have not been able to receive visitors as some care homes have yet to resume visits. Or when they have, they have been very few and far between and behind a giant sheet of plastic. It's seriously like a prison visit. Some basically sat in their rooms for weeks on end and watching their friends drop one after the other and wondering if they'd be next.

Too fucking right they should be first on the sodding list.

I am CEV and find it bizarre a healthy 65/66 year would receive the vaccine before myself.