To think the vaccine shouldn't be given out by age criteria?

[studychick81]

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

‘The reason I put teaching staff before EVC is that EVC can and are staying home.’
The shielded have been back at work for months, and have to work through the current lockdown if they are essential workers.

I’m in uni studying to be a health care worker and will be in placement 50% of the time. But I’m not entitled either as it’s not my job. Il be right at the bottom

Loads of elderly care home residents may decline the vaccine anyway. My grandfather always declined flu jab, he didnt want his life extended further.

Considering the effects that covid seems to have on many of our older people, I would say that it's not a case of prolonging people's lives, people in care homes are nearing the end of life anyway, but ensuring that the end of their life is not as traumatic as it potentially could be.

@Stripesnomore

‘The reason I put teaching staff before EVC is that EVC can and are staying home.’ The shielded have been back at work for months, and have to work through the current lockdown if they are essential workers.

But wouldn't you fall into the CV category then before the teaching category?

By all means vaccinate the CV teachers and education staff, there are in that group. Absolutely fine. On this thread we are talking about perfectly healthy education workers.

Honestly, I think you have not thought out your policy of shutting essential retail before schools.

(also M&S Foodhalls are open but you can’t get non essential items, almost everything is roped off once inside)

We do not have the infrastructure to support EVERYONE doing click and collect or home delivery. Many supermarkets (Aldi, Lidl) don’t deliver. Many people, mainly the elderly, still use cash and don’t have debit or credit cards.

You made a blanket statement of schools being prioritised before ESSENTIAL retail.

No. In a time of crisis, people being FED is always the priority.

To be fair only ONE person said that teachers should be before vulnerable people.

A lot of people seem to be missing the CV people off their preferred priorities - CV should be after CEV but before generals professions like teachers, police etc.

The main reason I think teachers should be above the general population is to keep schools open. Staff ARE catching it. Regardless of what the government says they ARE catching it at school from children. When staff catch it their bubble closes. If staff work across school, then several classes close - this happens a lot in secondary but also in primary. If enough staff catch it in the same time frame then schools close. Then children are off. If staff are ill - then there's no remote home learning going to happening, as some are too ill to provide it.

No we do not have infrastructure to feed everyone. And what’s that info - three missed meals away from a riot.

@Caroncanta

Loads of elderly care home residents may decline the vaccine anyway. My grandfather always declined flu jab, he didnt want his life extended further.

Considering the effects that covid seems to have on many of our older people, I would say that it's not a case of prolonging people's lives, people in care homes are nearing the end of life anyway, but ensuring that the end of their life is not as traumatic as it potentially could be.

Pneumonia used to be called old man’s friend- that surprises me as it was fucking horrendous when I had it.

But there’s so many dreadful ways to die, covid is just one. I can see why anyone would refuse life lengthening treatment.

Not everyone can reach multiple stores, has a car, or has multiple stores in their area. Food is the priority.

The problem is that at an individual level the roll out isn't necessarily acceptable to everyone but you can't start treating everyone on an individual basis - that would take years to sort out!

And there are a huge number of options alongside click and collect and deliveries to do that. Independent shops offer delivery, milk men offer delivery. Your most local supermarket shuts, you go to the next one. It a slightly longer drive/walk/bus ride/taxi. If you can't go yourself in the majority of cases you ask someone else to go. The number of people who genuinely need delivery and click and collect only is probably very low. The list of options of getting food in the almost all cases is extremely long. The list of providing education is one.

@studychick81

And there are a huge number of options alongside click and collect and deliveries to do that. Independent shops offer delivery, milk men offer delivery. Your most local supermarket shuts, you go to the next one. It a slightly longer drive/walk/bus ride/taxi. If you can't go yourself in the majority of cases you ask someone else to go. The number of people who genuinely need delivery and click and collect only is probably very low. The list of options of getting food in the almost all cases is extremely long. The list of providing education is one.

Education is a priority but even with supermarkets open it was hard to get food delivered in March / April. Even with local shops delivering. The demand is too great.

YABU.

The elderly are hugely more at risk of death and have been sitting ducks locked up in care homes. When they have been vaccinated it’s not nearly so important for everyone else to be locked up.

It’s great news.

@HeyBlaby

'Teachers aren’t on the list because there is no evidence they are at high risk simply because of their profession.'

I'm with you, but wait for the pile on in 3...2...1...

Same...

It will probably be a condition for care workers to continue to work, so you may be choosing unemployment.

No it won’t and carers are very much in short supply as it is. No vaccine is mandatory for carers or HCP because it would go against basic human rights legislation. What you choose to do morally is another thing

@studychick81

And there are a huge number of options alongside click and collect and deliveries to do that. Independent shops offer delivery, milk men offer delivery. Your most local supermarket shuts, you go to the next one. It a slightly longer drive/walk/bus ride/taxi. If you can't go yourself in the majority of cases you ask someone else to go. The number of people who genuinely need delivery and click and collect only is probably very low. The list of options of getting food in the almost all cases is extremely long. The list of providing education is one.

No. That’s not how it works. For some towns we have ONE supermarket. Corner shops cannot cope with an entire town buying from them, nor can local dairies.

And you do realise that for KEY WORKERS like me (Nurse) going to the next nearest school that had availability was exactly what we all had to do to keep the NHS, Care Homes and other Key parts of society running, don’t you?! My kids went to a different school with other key workers kids during the first lockdown. It happened all over the U.K.

Food is ALWAYS the priority.

And there’s far too much stupidity on this thread from people who don’t understand science or basic infrastructure. I’m out.

To be quite honest, my opinion is that I know fuck all about epidemiology and that if the experts say ‘this is the order we need to vaccinate in to make the biggest impact on the population as a whole’ then that’s ok in my book.

At this juncture, I think it is madness to start talking about individual cases and what is ‘fair’. People shouldn’t be stamping their feet and sulking about being near the back of the queue - the order needs to be whatever will make the biggest positive impact on the whole of society, taking economic considerations as well as health ones in to account.

I am glad so many people who work neither in Science nor in logistics know how to prioritise vaccines and feed the nation.

This is the information from the committee JCVI

I don’t doubt they know what they’re doing and are best placed to do it. Others may think not but at least read it.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Aragog

While we are all deeply sympathetic, your plight as in individual is not how decisions are made. The government will look at what needs to happen, statistically, on a population level assessment of risk. There are 60 million people in our country and to most, covid poses a very low risk of death, serious or continuing illness.

Actually on MN people don't care. They assume I got it elsewhere. It can't possibly be from school because 'schools are safe' and 'children don't get/can't spread Covid.' The government told these people a whole load of untruths early in, based in incredibly flawed data.

I've been in mn long enough. Over the past 5 weeks of being stuck in hospital and then home I've read a lot of threads who will do anything but admit schools are an area of risk. Even the government won't admit despite the actual number of school classes closing.

If I'd have succumbed to my complication - and the day the nurse had a blue light ambulance called to get me to a and e was because my blood pressure was so high the rush of stroke or heart attack were high - I'd have been merely a statistic for most of MN and the government.

Middle age CV woman - that's all they'd see.

People really really don't care overall.

And why should they really. Most people aren't bothered about individual cases unless it directly involves them.

Schools need to be safer.
Schools need to stay open.
Our children need to be educated.
To do that we need to protect the adults in schools (as they are more likely to be ill than children)
School staff should be above the general public group in order to keep schools open and to keep education going for our young people.

Nevermind. Anyway I'm out.

Well, they haven't prioritized Diabetics either, and we're more than twice as likely to die from Covid.

Instead of complaining about the order, let's just be glad it's here and that we'll get vaccinated at some point soon.

@Samcro
you do realise not all care home residents are old.
my dd and her friend are 25
I don't think the effect of Covid on young people and adults with learning disabilities and complex needs has entered the heads of the majority of posters on here, the fact that care homes are not just for those at the end of life, the incredibly poor health outcomes for people with LDs and complex needs...just doesn't even factor. As is often the case these people (And their carers) are forgotten.

I'm a teacher-I don't want it. What then? Are they going to force me to have a vaccine that hasn't been properly tested to keep my job?

@NeonGenesis

I would've thought that they would give it to the same people that are eligible for the flu jab firstly.

This is fairly close to what they are actually doing. It makes the most sense. Obviously everyone has their own opinions about who is and isn't a higher risk, but they have to go with the data that they have rather than how people feel.

No it isn't. I and many others who receive the flu jab are somewhere near the bottom (I'm 7 out of 10 on the current list with underlying health conditions, shielders are 6 out of 10), I'm not saying the order is right or wrong but I am saying please make sure you get your facts right before you post.

I'm a teacher and we shouldn't be on a special list (IMO). We are important, but there's a whole host of professions more vital to society. For example, farmers and food delivery workers.
Thanks for mentioning us farmers. We've carried on as normal. Fortunately we work outside and I haven't heard of any CV deaths of farmers locally. We need to vaccinate the medically vulnerable. Making a special case for teachers? Really? And I speak as a former teacher