To think the vaccine shouldn't be given out by age criteria?

[studychick81]

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

@studychick81

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

Once vaccination starts, it will happen quickly and there will be an overlap between the groups. For example, there’s no reason why GPs would wait to start vaccination once they have the vaccine.

@movingonup20 thanks. That helps put it in perspective a bit. It could possibly be done in a year.

Who would you want to queue jump in front of princess?

@whatistheworld

why bother giving to some care home residents?? those with terminal illness and far gone dementia?? My grandmother died at 97 years of age after lying in a bed for 3 years. She has no idea where she was or who anyone was and was unable to get up from her bed. Where is the quality of life?

That would be a personal choice made by that person's family.

I would like to think the people deciding these things have the facts and know what they're doing. So why would a healthy teacher get the before say the clinically vulnerable? If they've managed not to get it so far, or even if they have, but not been very unwell, then why would they be nearer the front of the queue than those more likely to suffer serious illness or even death if they contract covid? And don't forget that BAME people are more likely to become very ill too. If we're going down that route anyone in public facing roles should get it, not just teachers.

If it's handled anything like how administering the flu vaccine has this year then it will be a disaster anyway. It's great news, but it's what happens next that matters.

Napqueen1234 it's one thing to make decisions on a case by case basis by considering whether a person would want or benefit from the vaccine, quite another to say care home residents with dementia or terminal illness shouldn't get it. If whatistheworld meant the former, fair enough.

HCPs have to have it first to stop hospital pressure due to staff illness and isolation.
Plus it will stop in-hospital transmission which is a real problem.
Then the extremely vulnerable, especially care home residents. Because these are the people most likely to take up hospital beds.

Once the pressure is off the NHS, restrictions can be gradually lessened, because the rest of us are not likely to need a hospital bed with Covid.

What about residents with dementia who are not frail aged?

By mobile I don't mean able to walk I mean not getting on public transport for a 200 mile trip to visit family.

As for the vaccinating hot spots Chris Whitty did a lecture about 2 years ago on pandemics and how various responses are used for different diseases, what the R number is etc. It's on Youtube.

@Rachie1973

I’m a care worker but won’t be having it! Someone can have mine lol

It will probably be a condition for care workers to continue to work, so you may be choosing unemployment.

Teachers and Teaching assistants should get it. I know of two teachers that have died. Primary staff are facing children every day without any protection.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I'm not sure why teachers aren't on the list?

1. Care Home Staff and Residents
2. ALL medical patient facing staff across all sectors
3. Teachers (Secondary, then Primary, then HE)
4. The clinically vulnerable due to illness

I do believe teaching staff should be on there. It's easy to say teaching staff aren't at risk when they don't actually do any research on this / but hey, wouldn't want to have to admit their 'schools are safe' message would they?!

However they should not come before CEV and CV people.

I teach and I'm CV.

I am now in my 5th week of absence, slowly recovering from Covid. Based on all my T and T info I almost certainly caught Covid at school, most likely from a symptom free young child. Only people I have close contact with are those young children I teach, bar Dh.

Covid has spread through my school fast. We are a relatively small school but so far half our staff have tested positive, despite not being in closure contact with one about her, several parents have tested positive and we are now getting children test positive (4-7 year olds) - though most of the children are not actually having testable symptoms - the positive children are being tested when t and t are offering rather than for symptoms. Most likely it is the children spreading it by the looks of it.

Of our staff some have been affected worse than others. I am CV so maybe I real surprise I was hit hard, but others - mainly the women in their late 30s to early 50s - are also having a prolonged and unpleasant time of it. They are not CV but still suffering and still absent from school beyond their mandatory 10 days.

Those people should indeed have the option of the covid vaccine but a significant amount (eg someone with severe dementia who is bed bound and v frail and elderly) may have it declined in their behalf as the distress of vaccine outweighs the fact that everyone needs to die of something

What “distress of vaccine”?? And it’s not just to do with them, is it? Everyone in the Home needs to be vaccinated to stop others becoming infected. While your hypothetical frail, old person might be happy to die of Covid, I doubt they’d be happy to inadvertently cause the death of other people.

Even at 90% effective, it won’t work for 1 in 10 people so they will still be vulnerable.

I think carers need to higher up the list. If a carer gets ill who looks after the person they are caring for? This can be disastrous.

Sterch- I hope you're right and in that case the order is less significant.

Education and keeping schools open is way more important that keeping essential shops open. Firstly, pupils only have one option of school. If someone in their bubble goes down they are all sent home unless they get a cover person. That's 30/60/90 people out of education, that's the same number of parents' possibly unable to work as they are now home schooling. If there are multiple cases the school may need to close. A massive disruption.

If a essential worker in a food shop gets it, one person is off, possibly a handful if they are in close contact. That shop doesn't have to close and can probably still function on skeleton staff or bring in another worker. Plus, there are many options of different shops that people can go to, get deliveries from. Half the bloody shops are seen as essential because they sell food- M and S are open ffs! But don't get me started on that. The two can't be compared. There will not be the same detrimental effect from a shop closing, even though that's unlikely, to a school closing or a whole year group going home and there is no other options to education

The reason I put teaching staff before EVC is that EVC can and are staying home. Teaching and school support staff do not have this option. They are also forced to spend all day indoors with minimum 30 kids a day (sometimes into the hundreds) who are asymptomatic and silent spreaders.

I am not a teacher or school staff. I'm not saying this for me or anyone I know.

OP are you always such a ray of sunshine? Let us have one happy day

Education and keeping schools open is way more important that keeping essential shops open

Eh?!?!?!

How are we supposed to all eat if they close the essential shops?!

@whatistheworld

why bother giving to some care home residents?? those with terminal illness and far gone dementia?? My grandmother died at 97 years of age after lying in a bed for 3 years. She has no idea where she was or who anyone was and was unable to get up from her bed. Where is the quality of life?

you do realise not all care home residents are old. my dd and her friend are 25.

It will probably be a condition for care workers to continue to work, so you may be choosing unemployment.

I'm not sure we should be taking away people's jobs just because they want to decide their own medical treatment! Are care workers required to have the flu jab each year?

I'm a teacher and we shouldn't be on a special list (IMO). We are important, but there's a whole host of professions more vital to society. For example, farmers and food delivery workers.

I also think that descending order of age is a sensible plan. It is the biggest risk.

Look at ONS weekly death stats. Please. It REALLY is a much bigger risk to the over 80s. Regardless of any other factors. They arent stupid. They are prioritising that age group as that is what will bring down deaths. It really does not matter that much if it spreads among everyone elsw

If enough food shops closed, people would loot and riot. If a cluster starts in a store, it would close.

My friend is a supply teacher. She has been in multiple schools since September.

All of this is irrelevant as who gets the vaccine is not about occupation unless you care for the sick or elderly.

[quote Wigeon]@Hercwasonaroll - the second link looked at those schools which were open, and found:

“ only 0.01% of open educational settings had an outbreak

out of more than 1 million children attending pre-school and primary school in June, just 70 children were affected

infections in the wider community likely driving cases in schools

children were more likely to acquire SARS-CoV-2 infection at home than in school”[/quote]
The schools open before the summer are NOT a good indication of now, surely you can see that?!

Prior to the summer there were half size classes, with more space for the children to spread out, SD and use the outside space.

What schools are like now compared to July is very very different.

It's no surprise that the numbers per summer were low.

It's also no surprise that the numbers since September have been much higher. It's also no surprise the government have bit repeated their research and actual numbers of cases are not being shared even within the individual school community (I know this to be true if several schools) let alone the general public.

Do you have a child in a school?
If so surely you've seen the difference between summer and September?!?

At the very least I'd have though parents might want teaching staff vaccinated as it would probably mean less class closures. Even if they don't really care about the staff, least their children will get to stay in school longer.

But the government leaving teaching staff off the list, not even before the general public is really no surprise in all this. The level of disdain they've shown for schools and their staff during the pandemic has always been an issue - guidelines dropping on Sunday nights to be implemented the next day, no notice of anything, the list is very very long.

Bet they manage to get themselves a dose or two before the general public though!

And before any more nonsense is posted - I want schools open, I like my job, I want to be in school with the children. I just want my job to be safer regarding Covid.

I don't want to go through this again - the Covid complication I'm left with means life long medication and increases my risk of further issues if I catch it again!

Loads of elderly care home residents may decline the vaccine anyway. My grandfather always declined flu jab, he didnt want his life extended further.

@ProudAuntie76

Education and keeping schools open is way more important that keeping essential shops open

Eh?!?!?!

How are we supposed to all eat if they close the essential shops?!

As explained below. It's impossible that all shops selling food are going to close all at once. Most people have a wide abundance of options available including deliveries, click and collect or if they can't travel someone who can get food for them. If one or two shops close food is not going to run out and you die of starvation. Even shops that aren't essential such as m and s are open so even if your local supermarket closed there are other options.

There are no other options with education, your school closes, the kids can't go to the next nearest in the same way.

Aragog

While we are all deeply sympathetic, your plight as in individual is not how decisions are made. The government will look at what needs to happen, statistically, on a population level assessment of risk. There are 60 million people in our country and to most, covid poses a very low risk of death, serious or continuing illness.