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He can thcream and thcream until he’s sick but the US has taken its future back (Trump thread #112)

999 replies

TheNorthWestPawsage · 07/11/2020 20:37

They’ve only been and gone and done it.
Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4072116--Trump-thread-No-111-and-the-count-goes-on?pg=10

He can thcream and thcream until he’s sick but the US has taken its future back (Trump thread #112)
OP posts:
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33
RedToothBrush · 10/11/2020 15:06

I have to say given how Trump operates and the trouble we know him to be in, a 'follow the money' thought process is not a stupid one to have right now. He's a grifter and his cash cow is just about to run out if he doesn't try and challenge and wreck everything to keep hold of it.

ListeningQuietly · 10/11/2020 15:13

Fascinating the different ways different countries present ballot papers

India is electronic with party symbols so that the non literate can choose their candidates
economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/ballot-papers-are-history-evms-cant-be-tampered-with-cec/articleshow/71189897.cms?from=mdr

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2020 15:14

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/us/politics/trump-pac.html#click=t.co/7PIN5lmdBI" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/us/politics/trump-pac.html#click=t.co/7PIN5lmdBI

President Trump is planning to form a so-called leadership political action committee, a federal fund-raising vehicle that will potentially let him retain his hold on the Republican Party even when he is out of office, officials said on Monday.

The announcement is expected as soon as this week, just days after the major news networks and newspapers, as well as The Associated Press, called the 2020 election for former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.

Such committees can accept donations of up to $5,000 per donor per year — far less than the donation limits for the committees formed by Mr. Trump’s campaign and the Republican National Committee — but a leadership PAC could accept donations from an unlimited number of people. It could also accept donations from other political action committees.

I wonder what the tax liability of that is... Sounds like a great grift.

SeasonallySnowyPeasant · 10/11/2020 15:22

What's the deal with having to sign your ballot? How does that square with a secret vote?

gwenneh · 10/11/2020 15:24

You don't sign your ballot. When you vote in-person you sign the signature book prior to casting your ballot, so the poll worker can compare the signatures from your voter registration to your in-person signature.

When you vote by post, the signature is on a security envelope which is checked against the same signature as the poll book, and that envelope is separate from the vote.

showmethegin · 10/11/2020 15:31

Off topic but if that was your ballot paper @chomalungma we live very near each other! Grin

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2020 15:32

www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/11/we-asked-finance-experts-to-explain-trumps-odd-business-methods-in-scotland-they-were-mystified/?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=naytev&utm_medium=social
We Asked Finance Experts to Explain Trump’s Odd Business Methods in Scotland. They Were Mystified.
“You don’t have to sniff the air very long to see there’s something that smells.”

The clubs—one at Turnberry, located outside Glasgow, and one in Aberdeenshire, situated on a remote stretch of coastline along the North Sea—have been a main focus of the Trump Organization over the past decade. Trump has poured more money into these properties than any other part of his business. Yet neither club has ever turned a profit. In fact, together they have lost as much as $6.2 million annually over the past 14 years. Trump has other failed investments, but he rarely sticks with a losing venture for so long.
That’s not the only strange thing. Instead of putting money into the business, in exchange for equity, the way an investment usually works, Trump has been lending himself the cash needed to develop the properties and keep them afloat. And he has dramatically overvalued the courses—and not just in his typical braggadocios way, but in detailed corporate filings made annually in the UK.

And

But tax and financial experts Mother Jones consulted about his Scottish ventures were puzzled by his business methods, which they said did not have obvious tax or financial advantages. Perhaps, they said, Trump is just bad at doing business.

However, some critics have speculated about a more nefarious explanation for Trump’s anomalous business dealings related to the Scottish golf courses: money laundering. To that end, members of Scottish parliament have been pushing to probe Trump’s golf clubs using a statute typically aimed at kleptocrats.

And

Moreover, the way he has funneled money into the Scottish courses is downright bizarre. Every dime that he has put into the properties has been lent to the Scottish companies he owns that control the golf courses, by Trump himself or one of his New York-based LLCs.

Tax experts say it’s not unusual for different parts of a business based in different countries to lend to each other. Doing so can create tax advantages since the borrower may be able to write off the interest payments. Yet Trump’s loans (from himself and his LLCs to his Scottish companies) carry no interest and have no due dates, negating the most common tax benefit.

“I don’t see the tax angle to doing that,” says Daniel Shaviro, a professor of tax law at New York University’s law school. “There is a stupidity angle, perhaps, which would fit what we know about him as a businessman more generally.”

Shaviro and several other tax experts speculated that Trump may be attempting to take advantage of a variety of other, more obscure tax-avoidance tactics, but they pointed out that these strategies were, for the most part, not legally advisable, if not outright illegal.

And

Earlier this year, members of the Scottish parliament began urging their government to pry open Trump’s books and use what’s known as an Unexplained Wealth Order (UWO). As the name suggests, it’s a UK statute that can be used to compel a politically prominent person to explain how he or she pulled off a financial transaction that appears out of line with what’s publicly known about his or her finances. In 2018, this law was used to examine how the wife of a jailed ex–Azerbaijani government official had managed to afford a £16 million shopping spree at Harrods.

And

Fueling the suspicions of his critics is the fact that Trump has a history of partnering with people with alleged ties to money laundering. One example is the Agalarovs, the Azeri-Russian family who Trump teamed up with to produce the Miss World pageant in Moscow and with whom he explored developing a Moscow tower. The Senate Intelligence Committee reported this summer that the Agalarovs “have significant ties to Russian organized crime and have been closely affiliated with individuals involved in murder, prostitution, weapons trafficking, kidnapping, extortion, narcotics trafficking, money laundering and other significant criminal enterprises.” The committee also noted that Trump’s partners in the Trump Soho hotel project had connections to money laundering.

Btw, to get a residency or work visa to the uk questions about unexplained wealth are potentially problematic...

HoldMyLobster · 10/11/2020 15:32

In Maine we don't sign anything when we vote in-person. You turn up, give your name and address, take the ballot, go to a booth to fill it in, and put it into the scanner.

Blueberries0112 · 10/11/2020 15:34

@HoldMyLobster

In Maine we don't sign anything when we vote in-person. You turn up, give your name and address, take the ballot, go to a booth to fill it in, and put it into the scanner.
In Virginia, we don't either but my son had to sign for his absentee/mail in ballot and I had to sign to be his witness.
HoldMyLobster · 10/11/2020 15:34

Once you've voted, you go past all the various people who want you to sign petitions to get questions put on future ballots, you donate some food to the food bank, and you pick up your 'I voted' sticker. And say hi to all your neighbours and get all the gossip.

gwenneh · 10/11/2020 15:35

That's fascinating, @HoldMyLobster. I knew other states did it differently.

I always stress a bit about my signature matching the one from 20 years ago which is in the book!

HoldMyLobster · 10/11/2020 15:35

It's funny how different it is in every state.

Also we have ranked choice voting, so you rank your candidates first, second, third, fourth etc. But only in some races Grin

gwenneh · 10/11/2020 15:37

I forgot that Maine had that -- I've always thought that was more sensible.

HoldMyLobster · 10/11/2020 15:37

@gwenneh

That's fascinating, *@HoldMyLobster*. I knew other states did it differently.

I always stress a bit about my signature matching the one from 20 years ago which is in the book!

I have a tendon issue in my right thumb right now, so it's actually quite difficult to sign my name correctly. I followed up my ballot status very carefully to make sure it was accepted.
Nobdienowhere · 10/11/2020 15:37

This thread is very confusing, but the media have been pretty irresponsible calling the election.

Everyone does realise that it still hasn't actually been called yet?

HoldMyLobster · 10/11/2020 15:37

@gwenneh

I forgot that Maine had that -- I've always thought that was more sensible.
Republicans fought tooth and nail against it, of course...
HoldMyLobster · 10/11/2020 15:38

@Nobdienowhere

This thread is very confusing, but the media have been pretty irresponsible calling the election.

Everyone does realise that it still hasn't actually been called yet?

They call it every time. Why would they not do it this year?
Blueberries0112 · 10/11/2020 15:39

@gwenneh

Redistricting was part of the referenda on the back of the state ballot this year and the question was worded so confusingly I'm not sure anyone knew what they were voting for or against.

Question 1, legalising marijuana, got FAR more attention!

Yes it is, I had to do some research on pros and cons. What is worst is that there wasn't enough information on the internet about it so it took me forever
gwenneh · 10/11/2020 15:40

@Nobdienowhere Every election year the media calls elections before the states certify the results weeks later.

terrywynne · 10/11/2020 15:43

I've always wanted to be able to vote Australian style - on a Saturday and then have a BBQ sausage and look at fundraising stalls.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 10/11/2020 15:46

Nobdienowhere
This thread is very confusing, but the media have been pretty irresponsible calling the election.

There is however a fairly long run of precedent; for instance Trump was happy to accept the media having called it before the votes had all been counted back in 2016.

Everyone does realise that it still hasn't actually been called yet?

That would be because the states which have not called it have not finished counting all the ballots; this was predicted, was entirely predictable, and is absolutely expected at this point in an election in which so many mail-in votes have been cast.

Each state had a different cut-off date/hour for accepting mail-in ballots postmarked on or before 3rd November, and a different number of mail-in votes which had to be counted after election day -- some states allowed mail-ins to be verified many days, even weeks, before 3rd November, others wouldn't allow them to be touched until after the polls closed on 3rd November.

There is no need to be confused; only be patient, and all will become clear.

(ps: I said weeks ago that I wasn't going to start calling it a done deal before 14th, that being the latest date on which most states reckoned they would be done counting eg overseas mail-ins from the military.)

Nobdienowhere · 10/11/2020 15:48

I thought they didn't call it until the counts were finished.

It's still all over the place at the moment. I'm really astonished at all of the software issues that keep popping up in various states. I don't understand why some of the counting machines have different hardware/software. I assumed that they would be standardised and specified for security purposes.

Is it normal for these glitches happen?

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2020 15:48

@Nobdienowhere

This thread is very confusing, but the media have been pretty irresponsible calling the election.

Everyone does realise that it still hasn't actually been called yet?

Errrrrr.

Its not confusing.

The ballots are pretty clear in terms of whose won each state by the public vote.

The only thing up for debate is whether trump will try and subvert that.

In this sense the media - whose role it is to hold power to account by reporting to the people that power is supposed to represent - is absolutely doing the right thing in a liberal democracy to 'call' the election.

The tradition of the role (and importance) of the media, power and the public is one that very much runs back in the US to the war of American Independence.

So either you are not familiar with american history or the pillars of democracy or you are deliberately trying to spread misinformation.

Which is it? I know where my money is.

ListeningQuietly · 10/11/2020 15:50

Nobdie
I thought they didn't call it until the counts were finished.
You thought wrong.
Calling the election NEVER waits for the counting to finish.

CERTIFYING the election is done when the counting is finished - early in December

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 10/11/2020 15:52

@Nobdienowhere

I thought they didn't call it until the counts were finished.

It's still all over the place at the moment. I'm really astonished at all of the software issues that keep popping up in various states. I don't understand why some of the counting machines have different hardware/software. I assumed that they would be standardised and specified for security purposes.

Is it normal for these glitches happen?

The states don't; the media can and do.

The states have different systems because the states have autonomy about their methods of voting. It is not controlled from a central office. Assuming the states' systems are standardised is somewhat like assuming that eg Ireland and Denmark have identical systems, or Portugal and Greece.

Yes. See 2000, or look up "hanging chads".

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