To stop MiL telling SiL she can't have children?

[UnicornAndSparkles]

Long story short, my SiL is 35yo and has had fibromialga for 3yrs meaning she gets exhausted easily, is on pain medication and is often in pain. We are very close. Shes married with no children. Im pregnant with my second child. Shes talked of contemplating children if/when she feels able to come off pain meds and TTC. She's not sure it would be safe to TTC whilst on the meds.

MiL let slip yesterday that she has told SiL that she would never be able to cope with children in her condition. She wasn't trying to be cruel but is very to the point and it can come across very badly. DH and I are utterly shocked that she said that.

SiL is now wondering if she could cope or whether that part of her life is never meant to be. It makes me so sad to think she's unable to have children bc of this condition and MiL persuading her there is "no way" she could, when she always assumed she would, one day.

SiL has asked my advice. I don't know what to say. I started saying its her choice and that there is help out there if she were to choose to have kids - nannies etc - and that really its nothing to do with MiL who lives 100 miles away and cant offer support. But honestly I don't know what to say. I think she would really regret not TTC and she doesn't have long to think about it being 35 and having to come off pain meds slowly to TTC. But, again, I cant offer her practical support to help look after any children as I work, have a toddler and am pregnant and live 50 miles from her.

Has anyone had children whilst suffering from a chronic disability? Is it manageable? Her DH works full time and there is no family nearby for practical support.

Having children is a risk to anyone, the health of the mother and the possibility of a child with high dependency needs etc. These are all realities not just being negative. Such a massive choice for your SIL, so personal, I think you should just be supportive of her choices but not try to encourage either way. Give her sympathy for the blunt comment from MIL, maybe direct her to the fabulous advice people are giving here, but don't try to influence her thinking you'll only clutter her thoughts up imo.

@tofuschnitzel

"Someone said that the illness shouldn't control or dictate the rest of her life. Perhaps I should remind her of that."

You know your SIL better than we do, but I wouldn't welcome a comment like that at all. If you are ill, then that is the reality and you have to live within the limitations imposed by your health conditions. It's not a case of letting your illness dictate your life. If I cannot physically do something, then I cannot physically do something. That is not letting my health conditions to control or dictate my life, and I would really be very hurt if someone suggested otherwise.

I had a therapist who thought like this. Stupid woman. Questions eg What was I going to do with my life. What were my goals. She went about this as though I was depressed and could shake myself out of it when in reality I was devastated at not being able to look after dd every day.

That was a nasty thing to say - and probably unfounded as MIL won't know her exact details. However, I wouldn't try to control MIL with what she can and can't say - it won't work if she is that insensitive. I would however encourage SIL to think for herself instead of listen to your twit of a MIL! Perhaps SIL should draw back from the relationship with MIL too, she'd certainly have a good motive to do so.

I would encourage her to explore whether she really does need to come off her medication. Although general advice is not to take most medication when pregnant, the possible harm needs to be weighed against the harm to the mother if she isn't getting pain relief she needs. In many cases the risk to the baby is small and may even be theoretical rather than proven. Obviously it depends what medication she is taking and whether she is able to switch to something lower risk. Many women with chronic conditions are taking pain relief throughout pregnancy.

I have long term Fibro and Lupus. I have two kids and am doing a Masters 🤷🏼‍♀️ Admittedly, my husband and parents are there for me and help and I couldn’t carry on my job as a teacher once the second one was born as it triggered a really bad episode for me and I was incredibly anemic and when I tried to go back to work I had no quality of life. BUT I do some freelance from home and we live in a slightly smaller house than we might otherwise (still a decent three bed in London) to make sure that we are still comfortable. Sometimes I do have to spend a day or two in my pyjamas or need more pain killers but I’m far from an inept mother, even at my poorliest. If your SIL wants kids then with some tweaking it’s very possible. Could I have two kids and work 40hrs a week as a manager in a school? No, I couldn’t. But can I be a mother and have a happy and fulfilled life where I feel generally well? Yes. And I wouldn’t swap it for anything.

I have a chronic illness (arthritis) and while it is mild and well-controlled, it does affect my parenting and at times it has meant that DH has had to do much more day-to-day parenting.

I had a bad flare-up when DD was 3, which affected my energy levels as well as increased pain. I would go to work, come home, rest while DH cooked dinner and watched DD, eat dinner, put DD to bed if I had the energy, then go to bed myself. DH usually did the nursery run as it was near his office - I could not have managed it myself during this time. I know that DD missed out on time with me, and it was sad to see her adapting to this and getting used to me resting all the time. Thankfully I was able to go into different meds and my condition improved.

While MIL was harsh, it is true that having a chronic condition does affect your parenting and means your partner will probably have to do more (you can only buy in so much help). Do you think BIL will step up, does he have a job that can be flexible, is he willing to take a more family-friendly job? I’d say these are all things SIL needs to consider.

I developed Scleroderma after having my first DC at 35 and was very unwell for a long time. I was advised to wait before trying to have another but I gave up waiting and had DC2 at 43 with extra medical care and dropping at least one med. I had no family help but my health had stabilised somewhat and it was fine.

There's a few things to consider here:'

1. She will need to accept that if she becomes a parent she may not be the parent that she would want to be in a perfect world. But that's true of most parents in some fashion.

1. Do they have money to buy in support? Sitters/cleaners etc.

1. Is her dh hands on now? If he isn't a team player now, he isn't going to become one.

I have had ME and now fibromyalgia after having my second child at 40. I also work full time and have virtually no help .
I am on painkillers daily and it is difficult but doable but has been very tough.

There isn't always help out there as its very poorly supported .
Does your SIL work though and what will maternity leave look like if she does. One persons fibro isn't another's though and it depends on how resilient she normally is as a person I think. It also depends on how easy the baby is and also if she wants more than one.
Realistically too as an older mother she will be tired .s Perhaps the challenge is to get as fit as possible before trying to put her in the best place- easier said than done I admit (from experience) but probably her best bet is to focus on fitness and diet as soon as she can.
Pain meds don't need to take an age to get off as I have stopped some difficult ones within weeks - its luck not grit though as they affect others differently due to just biology.
I suppose what I am saying is that there are lots of factors but it is potentially do able , be prepared for a bit of a rocky ride at first and try and prepare well.

@Mummyoflittledragon your situation is completely different I think, you didn’t go into parenthood disabled or with chronic ill health and it sounds as though you have a good grasp on how best to help your DD have a good life. I don’t at all mean that disabled people should not have children, there are many disabled parents who can give their children a good life and cope perfectly fine with parenting. But for those who are disabled (before children) to the point that they cannot actively be a parent to their child, it does have a massive impact on said child’s life and that should be what is focused on by any parent considering having one. I really do hope that life gets better for you, it sounds like you’ve had an incredibly rough time

MIL may seem cruel but it is her daughter it was probably said very gently.
It is a tough one.
Parenting is hard without a chronic illness and no family support.
Her DH may have to stop working to be her carer soon if she is that bad at 35.

@Nomorepies

She was unkind to say it that way but she was probably right tbh. But that's not to say she shouldn't try. But I think it just depends on how much she wants them- it doesn't sound like she's majorly fussed.

How dare you say such a thing. So many parents with health conditions and disabilities are bloody wonderful parents, and they have as much right to have children as anyone else.

I don't think it's going to be that helpful asking able-bodied people this question, OP. Your SIL would benefit from getting in touch with other parents with chronic health conditions or disabilities.

OP's SIL is ill, but she is still working full time and from the sounds of it leading a fairly normal life. But even if she wasn't, it's still no one's place to decide if she can or cannot be a parent.

Really, you are asking the wrong people here for advice. Your SIL won't get the support she needs from able-bodied parents on Mumsnet who have no idea of the practicalities of parenting with health conditions. Your SIL needs to hear from other parents or would-be parents with health conditions and or disabilities.

@BoggledBudgie
Thanks. I do try my best 😊

I have a chronic condition that causes a lot of pain, and had DC while on a lot of opiates and anti-epileptic meds.

All supervised by the pain consultants.

DC was born opiate dependant, but hospital were brilliant in weaning off and they had Apgars of 10 and 10. DC is happy, healthy and only issue is dyslexia which runs in the family and afaik is not caused by prenatal exposure to any of the meds I was on.

I'm disabled with chronic pain and currently on maternity leave after having twins.

It's hard, but life is hard with a disability in many respects anyway and this is just hard in a number of new and different ways! However, I think I have a lot of mental management tools already in place to help me with fatigue, getting things done and admitting when I might need a hand.

I don't regret having my babies for a second and am absolutely loving motherhood while doing my best to shield them from any impact of my disabilities - I might collapse into bed exhausted and in pain at the end of the day, but I'm managing to get through the day hopefully without any detriment to them, largely because of pain management and pacing techniques I had already developed. I imagine that some new parents are frazzled and exhausted but coping without having learned that kind of thing in day to day life previously, so every cloud and all!

I would say that my health visitor has been absolutely useless whenever I've asked her about potential support available to disabled parents - there doesn't seem to be much provided at a local authority level and support groups have been difficult to find, too. She just shrugs really and tells me there's no other disabled mothers on her books so she's not sure.

A good support network will be invaluable for your sister in law and, speaking from my own experience, she should probably consider how she would cope if it's not just one baby popping up on the scan!

Hi OP

I have CFS but it is very mild - a bit like what SIL has but without the pain (I get chronic migraines and fatigue).

For CFS, about a third of people feel better in pregnancy, a third of people feel the same and a third worse.

I actually felt great in pregnancy and had another child but after going back to work the second time, everything just hit me at once I think and my body shut down, I had a severe relapse, worse than I'd ever felt before. It was awful, I felt so bad letting my children down, I barely saw them for 6 months as I could only get out of bed for a few hours every day. They spent so much time with their dad they started preferring him over me and didnt want me to put them to bed or anything. I couldn't take them anywhere or do anything fun with them for months. And I did start to question whether it was foolish to have even had them in the first place.

Thankfully I am ok for the moment and normal life has resumed. I think my relapse had something to do with adjusting hormones, and that was actually why I felt better when I was pregnant and breastfeeding as I wasnt on any hormonal contraception so I have stopped that now.

I think a lot of her decision will depend on how much her husband wants children and how supportive he will be. My husband is great and does at least 50 50 but for those times he did absolutely everything- took them to and from nursery and school, took them out at the weekends, arranged playdates, tidied up after them, got up in the night with them, played with them. I'm not sure that many people would be ok knowing they were going to have to potentially step up and take on 100pc of parenting duties. It was also a financial worry (not sure if your SIL works but I did and our mortgage is based on this etc so it was worrying when I was looking at no money coming in but still having to pay out 1k a month for nursery while I sat at home).

Just be careful not to 'convince' her she can do it, i.e. don't just push the positives, that would be really unfair.
Of course you want to re-assure her, but as you say yourself she won't have any local support, money will be tight, and then add the illness and daily pain to it...
I'm not saying discourage her, definitely not, but don't encourage her either, just present a balanced view. Imagine she follows your advice and then resents you as her life is hell.

1. children don't stay babies for long.
2. what will her DH do?
3. if she's worried about her meds, she should approach the GP and begin discussions or referral concerning TTC and suitable medication.

Good luck to her.

You sound like a lovely and supportive SIL, it’s great she has you in her corner.
MIL should keep her gob zipped, what a horrible thing to say and actually none of her business.

I think your SIL sounds very sensible and is weighing up her options. Trying to reduce her medication sounds like the best plan under medical supervision.
Are there support groups online she could turn to for her conditions to get advice and support?

If they can afford childcare support that should make a great difference so that she and DH can manage that way.
If they moved nearer to DH parents would SIL be happy with that? Does she get on with them? Would they live nearer to you too if they moved? These are all things to consider.

. Most fibro patients feel very good when pregnant and not on meds as it's all the hormones (yes I work in a fibro clinic). After birth when tiredness kicks in and stress then that is when it is harder. A number of my patients also have social workers etc but this depends whether you have good family support etc. Most people say their children are what gets them up each day

Not much of a life to have parents constantly exhausted, ill and in pain

No, it isn't. That was my own DM for the first 11 years of my life. The majority of my childhood memories are unhappy. Every Oct/Nov, the teachers would ask us to write about what we did for Halloween/Bonfire night. I had nothing to write about as we never did anything. I was never taken on days out or swimming (still can't swim mow), wasn't taught to ride a bike. I could go on but I'm starting to upset myself a little.

MIL has a point but it's not just about whether your SIL can cope - would the child cope? That's the most important thing of all, the child who quite frankly, hasn't asked to be born and would be in existence purely because of someone's 'wants'.

Someone said that the illness shouldn't control or dictate the rest of her life. Perhaps I should remind her of that.

Please @UnicornAndSparkles do NOT do that!!!
A chronic illness that leaves you unable to work or in pain etc... just cannot be dismissed or ignored. It’s not about leaving the illness dictating your life. That implies that the person is somehow too weak to take the lead. Living with a chronic condition like this is about managing within the boundaries that illness gives you.

Stories about ‘well I have ME/fibro and I can work full time + raise two kids so no one should be stopped by that’ make me laugh. A very hollow laugh.
Because some people might have a mild form that allows them to work full time but others will have a severe form that leaves them in bed all day with just enough energy to have a shower. When you are at that level of pain or exhaustion, there is no talk about not letting that illness dictate your life. It just is because there is no other choice.

This is why no one should push your SIL either way. Listen to her. Hear her worries. But please don’t push an opinion onto her. Better to let her know you won’t judge whatever is her decision

I have chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia secondary to EDS and it's one of the reasons we decided not to have children. It's not about getting up and getting on with it even when it's hard, it's about the fact that sometimes I physically cannot do anything more than sit. If I was alone with children on a very low energy/bad pain day I'd be in trouble. Those days are not that often just now as I'm managing my condition very well but I have to work extremely hard to keep it under control. I work 0.8FTE and would love to go full time again in theory but I don't have much of a life outside work.

That said, I think YANBU because it's not your MIL's place to tell your SIL she wouldn't cope. If she wants children it's up to her to figure out how she can make it work and what sacrifices she's willing to make either as a parent or in other parts of her life.

@Meuniere

Someone said that the illness shouldn't control or dictate the rest of her life. Perhaps I should remind her of that.

Please @UnicornAndSparkles do NOT do that!!!
A chronic illness that leaves you unable to work or in pain etc... just cannot be dismissed or ignored. It’s not about leaving the illness dictating your life. That implies that the person is somehow too weak to take the lead. Living with a chronic condition like this is about managing within the boundaries that illness gives you.

Stories about ‘well I have ME/fibro and I can work full time + raise two kids so no one should be stopped by that’ make me laugh. A very hollow laugh.
Because some people might have a mild form that allows them to work full time but others will have a severe form that leaves them in bed all day with just enough energy to have a shower. When you are at that level of pain or exhaustion, there is no talk about not letting that illness dictate your life. It just is because there is no other choice.

This is why no one should push your SIL either way. Listen to her. Hear her worries. But please don’t push an opinion onto her. Better to let her know you won’t judge whatever is her decision

Yes, exactly. When it's really bad it's actually that bad. There is no pushing through, it's just sitting on the sofa (if you made it that far in the first place) wishing you could have a shower but knowing you can't even make it back up the stairs. People who talk about not letting it control my life make me feel much worse about myself. And medically speaking my condition is considered mild, because I manage to work part-time. I've experienced huge improvements to my mental and physical health after finally learning to accept my limits and not constantly berate myself about letting my condition "control my life".

@tofuschnitzel

"Someone said that the illness shouldn't control or dictate the rest of her life. Perhaps I should remind her of that."

You know your SIL better than we do, but I wouldn't welcome a comment like that at all. If you are ill, then that is the reality and you have to live within the limitations imposed by your health conditions. It's not a case of letting your illness dictate your life. If I cannot physically do something, then I cannot physically do something. That is not letting my health conditions to control or dictate my life, and I would really be very hurt if someone suggested otherwise.

Completely agree. This is the worst thing you could say to someone with a chronic condition/disability. Please don't.