To stop MiL telling SiL she can't have children?

[UnicornAndSparkles]

Long story short, my SiL is 35yo and has had fibromialga for 3yrs meaning she gets exhausted easily, is on pain medication and is often in pain. We are very close. Shes married with no children. Im pregnant with my second child. Shes talked of contemplating children if/when she feels able to come off pain meds and TTC. She's not sure it would be safe to TTC whilst on the meds.

MiL let slip yesterday that she has told SiL that she would never be able to cope with children in her condition. She wasn't trying to be cruel but is very to the point and it can come across very badly. DH and I are utterly shocked that she said that.

SiL is now wondering if she could cope or whether that part of her life is never meant to be. It makes me so sad to think she's unable to have children bc of this condition and MiL persuading her there is "no way" she could, when she always assumed she would, one day.

SiL has asked my advice. I don't know what to say. I started saying its her choice and that there is help out there if she were to choose to have kids - nannies etc - and that really its nothing to do with MiL who lives 100 miles away and cant offer support. But honestly I don't know what to say. I think she would really regret not TTC and she doesn't have long to think about it being 35 and having to come off pain meds slowly to TTC. But, again, I cant offer her practical support to help look after any children as I work, have a toddler and am pregnant and live 50 miles from her.

Has anyone had children whilst suffering from a chronic disability? Is it manageable? Her DH works full time and there is no family nearby for practical support.

I also think however clumsily you MIL has put it and it is bad she has genuine concern. Only your SIL can decide regardless of what anyone else opinion is. I suppose while she isn’t ancient by any stretch if she is considering it she probably does need to make a plan about timings in case there are any issues. When it comes to help with children that’s between relatives to decide what they can offer and that is for anyone regardless of extra complexity and also what a family can afford. I had a cleaner for almost all the time when dc were little and when DS was a baby and I had almost a year on maternity leave he went in to nursery two mornings a week. This is one of the scenarios when life can be seen to be incredibly unfair.

You wrote that her DH works full time. Loads of people work full time pre children then reduce once they become parents. (And of course loads don't). If her body can manage the pregnancy and labour then it really is s decision between her and her DH. In her shoes I'd only want a baby with someone who is really on board and prepared to do the bulk of the parenting, possibly sacrificing other things (work, mysterious hobbies, sleep). I'd want him to appreciate that he'd need to be prepared to step up. You can't predict the future of chronic illnesses (including recovery as well as relapse).
Money also makes a massive difference, as if they have plenty they can buy in help (whether a nanny, or a cleaner than does other household tasks, freeing parents up). That isn't nice but it is a reality.

@BoggledBudgie

It is children of disabled parents you want to speak to in this situation, not disabled parents themselves.

Why? I think I have a pretty good idea about my Dds life.

It's really not for you to advise her either way OP.
But you should encourage to decide for herself and what your MIL said was bang out of order.
Many people parent with disabilities and long term conditions, many people with zero issues aren't necessarily great parents. We don't live in an ideal world.
If she feels like she could cope then she should go for it.

I'm torn between giving her the confidence she needs to go for it and dragging her down with all the difficulties she may face.

Don't get over involved. Say that MiL is entitled to her opinion but really it is for your SIL to decide. Suggest she comes on MumsNet herself, that would be a good way for her to contact mothers with experience and start working out how to build a support network.

@Mummyoflittledragon because children with disabled parents tend to have a different view of their lives than their parents do. Not much of a life to have parents constantly exhausted, ill and in pain - especially if they have to end up caring for their parents. There’s a reason there’s so many charities and so much help for children with disabled parents, it’s really not an easy life for them.

But of course we’re talking about parents with constant chronic illnesses that understandably take over their lives. There are those with chronic conditions that manage to raise children perfectly fine and don’t let their illness interfere with their children. But anyone with a disability like that should really speak to children who have been raised by parents with that illness, their take on their life and childhood is entirely more important than the parents.

I have fibro and a whole heap of other stuff too. I am slightly younger than your SIL and I have always been supported by doctors when I have said I would like a family (was meant to be TTC this year but have delayed due to Covid).

My GP has said we need a meds review before I want to TTC so we can switch some meds to pregnancy friendly alternatives. My asthma nurse confirmed all my asthma meds are safe in pregnancy too.

So your SIL should be able to discuss her meds with her GP in advance of TTC.

Lots of people with disabilities become parents so it's not something doctors won't have seen before. Fibro is a common condition as well so lots of women with it will have children. Only SIL and her husband can weigh up whether they think they will cope or not.

I have a loving partner. I also have ME and a functional neurological disorder. I was in a wheelchair it was so bad a few years ago. I had my baby almost two years ago now and it's brutal, particularly with coming off meds etc but I did it. Every day is a struggle but I push myself beyond my limits every day to make her happy, get down on the floor and play with her, lift her up etc. The consequences are a lot of pain and having to go to bed at 8pm when my daughter does, and wake up around 1am for an hour to eat etc then go back to bed till morning.

But I wouldn't change it for the world, I'm so glad I did it and if I had the choice again knowing what I know now, I'd still choose to have her. She enriches my soul like nothing else in this world.

I’ve had a few major surgeries now and have chronic pain, ME and fibro. Life is really really hard. I became incredibly ill when dd was 3. Consequently I upped her days at nursery to 3 days a week. I couldn’t stand to be apart from her anymore - I was supposed to be with her as a Sahm. 1.5 days a friend looked after us. 2 days dh looked after us. 0.5 days i muddled through. Some of the time a person from homestart came during that time. Dd and I would fall asleep on the sofa together, dh would come home, put dd to bed while I crawled up the stairs onto her bed then if I was well enough, I would read her a story. She always worries about me and at almost 6, I had to involve a child psychologist as she stopped developing emotionally.

I do not have good quality of life. I love my dd to bits. But I just can’t do very much with her. In my better times, we’ve managed Disney when I was on a good stage but a lot of the time trips to the cinema and visiting local farm park etc had to be carefully planned. We had a lot of film / duvet days.

Now dd is 12 and more independent. She spends most of her time online chatting with her friends precisely because I cannot provide her with the time and energy she needs.

I went on the pill (one month supply) for ivf and then took another medication (for 3 weeks), both of which poisoned me and took my energy away. Never to return. I was doing ok until dd was 3, which is when I took the second medication for chronic pain.

I love my dd to bits. But if I could have my time again, idk if she would be here. Life is often so difficult to bear. The absolute exhaustion coupled often with an inability to sleep.

I have RA, which was triggered by pregnancy/breastfeeding - I didn't have it until I had the baby. As I had no choice, I managed. I am not sure I would have chosen to have an abstract "baby" if I had realised what it would be like in that situation, but I am incredibly glad that I do have my son and now I would definitely choose to do it again to have him (although I have also chosen not to have a second). I also have a friend with fibro whose pregnancy was a surprise who has a similar position - it isn't an ideal way to have a baby, but you do get to keep the baby which makes up for a lot of hassle and pain.

It really helps to have a supportive partner, it helps to pace yourself and do one small part of a large task at a time as you'll get there in the end (your friend will already be doing this), and it helps to take full advantage of any aids there are like swivelling car seats etc - I had a child toddling alongside a mobility scooter on days out when he was small and wherever we went people were usually falling over themselves to be nice to us because they could actually see the disability.

I havent read the whole thread but just wanted to say my step sister has fibromyalgia and an Injured back, she has 6 children and copes better with them than i do having 2!. Honestly if she wants to try then go for it

Is she in a position to afford to buy in the kind of support, op? It sounds like your sil lives too far away from family to be of any practical help, does she have the kind of support network among friends who can do anything other than mumble soothing noises? What kind of flexibility is there her and her dh's life? Is he generally resilient in the face of adversity or will he ship out when the going gets tough?

Hi op,
I have fibro and am ttc. I had to come off pain meds to be be able to do so, which did make me flare up but then it was decided I didn't have to come off of them all. It took a year until I was given the go ahead.
It is dependant on how bad her fibro is I think. I work, but when I flare I'm really bad. If I was like that all the time I would badly struggle I think. I have come to terms with I will probably need some help when this happens, however in general I think I will be okay as I am going straight back on medication when a baby is born.i know I am one of the lucky ones and I could be worse.
Doctors supportive, My dh and family supportive too. It is entirely on if she thinks she could manage realistically. I would have been devestated is my dm had said that to me in that way.

My partner is in his early 40's and has chronic tiredness and other issues with his health. I'm 31 and healthy. We are TTC at the moment. We've talked about how it might affect us, might be harder for him to be the running around kind of dad and to be up in the night. But kids are remarkably adaptable and actually my parents never used to run around with me and I don't recall feeling like I was missing out on that.

It's none of your MIL's business at the end of the day. How awful that she might put your SIL off trying for children if she wants them. Everyone copes differently and just because she has fibromyalgia doesn't mean that she wouldn't cope. It might be harder for her, sure, but if she wants to do it then she would find a way, and 35 is not old.

Also, if she is married, even if DH works he can take some parental leave and help out, and if they can afford help then even better.

It does depend on the individual. Sil might manage absolutely fine with minimal help, but I do think she needs to understand that babies are bloody hard work, even with an equal partner and good health.
My sil had a baby and coped very badly for both mental and physical health reasons. Mil helped a lot despite living 2 hours away and we were criticised for not doing more as we lived closer.
When she said she wanted another mil encouraged it, she loves people to be dependent on her. I told sil it was a bad idea and if she decided too she couldn’t rely on us for help unless it was an emergency
She went ahead and then we were under a lot of pressure to help our more, which I refused. They ended up moving next door to mi and she basically raised the children - which was apparently only necessary because I (not DH) didn’t help.
So if mil is going to take the brunt of caring responsibilities then I think she does get a say. It’s all very well you saying mil is being unfair OP but is it you will have to give regular help to your sil?

Surely as with most chronic conditions, it’s too variable to say? I don’t think a blanket yes or no is correct. If someone is practically bed-bound then of course it wouldn’t be a good idea to TTC, but if someone is able have a reasonably good quality of life and hold down a job for example, then I can’t see any reason why they couldn’t.

I don’t have fibro, but I have endometriosis and have pain and fatigue (plus a whole host of other issues) due to that for about half of the month, and I work in a fast paced clinical role and do pretty much everything I want to (I’m tired and in pain, but can still do it) other women with endo find it impossible to get out of bed some days/weeks of the month and therefore struggle to hold down even a desk based part time job because they suffer so much.

I think it’s far too variable for anyone to say if it’s a good idea or not without knowing her.

Hmm, your MIL sounds thoughtless and insensitive, even if she meant well.

BUT having a child is exhausting, and relentless - especially if you have no family support or can’t afford a lot of childcare.

I found having a baby so hard, and now we’re just getting in to the start of the challenging toddler stage. Today I woke up in excruciating pain in my back for apparently no reason. I have no family nearby, and DH had to go to work. Today is DS’s day at home with me (he’s in nursery Mon-Thurs), and in desperation I rang the nursery and asked if he could go today - luckily they had space and said yes.

How on earth I’d manage every day with a baby or active toddler if I had chronic pain or a disability I have no idea. I appreciate the majority of disabled or ill parents are excellent and do manage- but many children do end up as carers, which robs them of their childhood.

It’s no life for a baby having a Mum who can’t get off the sofa or go to baby groups or any kind of outing with the child. I’m sorry, but it’s the truth.

You’d be being far crueller to your SIL if you denied to her how hard having a child is. When you’re tired you just have to crack on. When you’re ill you just have to crack on. It is HARD. Please don’t deceive her.

Honestly, I would just avoid getting involved in this.
If MIL is her mum, it's between them. Sil may well have asked her for her honest view. Mil has given it. And it's her view. It's between them.
Nobody knows if it would be ok. Only her and her husband can weigh the risks and decide.
All you can do is offer love help and support no matter what.
Honestly, I have been there with friends and colleagues. Don't offer an opinion, don't discuss, just be confident that they will make the right decision for them.

Thank you for the responses.

I've been honest with her throughout my parenting, which started prior to her condition. She knows having children isn't easy, even when you're on good health.

MiL isn't in a position to help her; she lives too far away, doesn't drive and is 80yo. FiL also 80 but does drive. He's fitter and healthier than MiL, who suffers with arthritis, but neither are young, fit PiL who could offer childcare/physical support. SiL would have to rely on external support in the form of a nanny or similar, and would scrimp and save to achieve this. Her DH is supportive of what she chooses. An alternative could be that they move 200 odd miles to be near to his parents, who are much younger and healthier, and I'm sure would help as much as they could. Perhaps I should talk about this with her. MiL has really made her sad about the whole situation tbh and I feel awful for her. Of course I don't know the extent of her condition but she's able to hold down a full time office based job and pre covid was able to travel for holidays etc.

Someone said that the illness shouldn't control or dictate the rest of her life. Perhaps I should remind her of that.

It really is up to her and DH but we are very close and as she's asked me about it and clearly wants someone to talk to i don't feel I can just say "its up to you".

Your SIL may not even need to come off any medication, it depends what she has been prescribed. bumps is a really useful website for medication in pregnancy, and I would urge your SIL to look up her medications on the website as well as have a conversation with her GP before she starts TTC. For me, I have had to stop taking one of my pain meds, but the rest are ok, and they are pretty strong.

It feels a little infantalising to be discussing this about your SIL when she is not involved in the discussion. Ultimately it is her decision, and it's not as if she cannot make that decision for herself. We cannot make the decision for her, and nor should we.

I have Fibromyalgia and ME, as well as a few other chronic health conditions. I am disabled. What I would like to share with your SIL is that she is already well versed in coping with chronic fatigue, pain, and neurological symptoms. The severity of those symptoms may change due to pregnancy/parenthood, but she already has lots of experience managing with them. I think that counts for something.

Many many women with chronic health conditions and/or disability are able to have children. Parenting may look a bit different for your SIL, but that is not necessarily a negative thing.

She needs to talk to her doctor about the pain medication and TTC. Some are okay to take, some are not.

As long has her husband is supportive and they are financially solvent enough to help themselves if they need to (cleaner, childcare, laundry service, meal service) then there is no reason she can’t be a perfectly good mother.

"Someone said that the illness shouldn't control or dictate the rest of her life. Perhaps I should remind her of that."

You know your SIL better than we do, but I wouldn't welcome a comment like that at all. If you are ill, then that is the reality and you have to live within the limitations imposed by your health conditions. It's not a case of letting your illness dictate your life. If I cannot physically do something, then I cannot physically do something. That is not letting my health conditions to control or dictate my life, and I would really be very hurt if someone suggested otherwise.

[quote BoggledBudgie]@Mummyoflittledragon because children with disabled parents tend to have a different view of their lives than their parents do. Not much of a life to have parents constantly exhausted, ill and in pain - especially if they have to end up caring for their parents. There’s a reason there’s so many charities and so much help for children with disabled parents, it’s really not an easy life for them.

But of course we’re talking about parents with constant chronic illnesses that understandably take over their lives. There are those with chronic conditions that manage to raise children perfectly fine and don’t let their illness interfere with their children. But anyone with a disability like that should really speak to children who have been raised by parents with that illness, their take on their life and childhood is entirely more important than the parents.[/quote]
Ok, yes, I see what you’re saying. We have money to throw at any problem. My dd has a great life. She’d rather have a well mummy. But it is what it is. And I wasn’t ill until I started the pill for ivf. And she isn’t my carer. Albeit she does some bits for me like take stuff upstairs when I need to go to bed.

@MaskingForIt

She needs to talk to her doctor about the pain medication and TTC. Some are okay to take, some are not.

As long has her husband is supportive and they are financially solvent enough to help themselves if they need to (cleaner, childcare, laundry service, meal service) then there is no reason she can’t be a perfectly good mother.

This.

She needs an excellent support system. And most doctors will be honest if they feel she wouldn’t be able to cope with the physical demands of pregnancy