Trump thread #110 where the orange one is going away

[freddosfrogs]

How long will this one take to fill ?

*The Democrats need to ask themselves "what looks so wrong about our policies that a blue collar worker in Idaho thinks he has a better chance under Trump than under us?". Of course that blue collar worker will think that on the basis of Trump's lies - but what are the Democrats getting wrong with their messaging?

I say that as someone instinctively and consistently left of centre. At some point the left (UK)/ not so humungously right of centre need to ask themselves "what are we doing wrong?"*

Second this. I think a big part of the issue is constantly telling people that their thoughts and feelings are wrong. It feels like politicians - of all sides but especially left and centre (hi lib dems!) - are trying to enforce their view of what people should want, rather than listening and enacting. We're told that we should think X, that if we believe Y we're wrong, and it's very alienating. Voting for Trump is for many an expression of frustrating at not being heard, just like Brexit is here.

Re At some point the left / not so humungously right of centre need to ask themselves "what are we doing wrong?"

This is really interesting. You could argue the Left have done something wrong, or you could argue that populism dismantled the left.

The old "them and us" dividing line used to be rich versus poor/white collar versus blue collar etc. If you were a blue collar worker you voted left and if you are white-collar you voted right. Then populism came along and began reaching out to the blue-collar workers/the working class/poor and falsely suggesting that it provided these voters with a voice. To achieve this it started to tarnish the left with accusations of elitism being part of a "swamp" and highlighting identity politics as the key dividing line. In reality the majority of left-leaning voters do not wake up every day and think about identity politics as their first thought, they are more concerned with healthcare, fair pay, parental leave the climate, education and so on. That this was a neat way for the populists to turn those voters against the left by creating a division and fuelling arguements only really very leftists were passionate about to sow discord.

Let's say you have Elizabeth, a 18-year-old black woman who lives in a council flat in Tower Hamlets and you also have Joe, a white working-class 18-year-old man from Bolton. In reality Elizabeth and Joe probably share a lot of experiences and understandings but populism has convinced Joe that he has more in common with Jacob Rees-Mogg than he does with Elizabeth, and populism has ignored Elizabeth entirely, (often questioning her legitimacy as a UK citizen) and has crafted the perception that all the left are elite.

So has the left done anything wrong or have they simply been slow to realise the dark tactics of populism?

Also, one could argue that the Democrats have got it right given their candidate now has the highest number of votes to any presidential candidate in history.

I once despairingly thought no-one could ever beat Trump. But now we know, Biden can!

Jesus! Piers Morgan talking sense..... 2020 guys... What a year!!

@StatisticallyChallenged

*The Democrats need to ask themselves "what looks so wrong about our policies that a blue collar worker in Idaho thinks he has a better chance under Trump than under us?". Of course that blue collar worker will think that on the basis of Trump's lies - but what are the Democrats getting wrong with their messaging?

I say that as someone instinctively and consistently left of centre. At some point the left (UK)/ not so humungously right of centre need to ask themselves "what are we doing wrong?"*

Second this. I think a big part of the issue is constantly telling people that their thoughts and feelings are wrong. It feels like politicians - of all sides but especially left and centre (hi lib dems!) - are trying to enforce their view of what people should want, rather than listening and enacting. We're told that we should think X, that if we believe Y we're wrong, and it's very alienating. Voting for Trump is for many an expression of frustrating at not being heard, just like Brexit is here.

Absolutely!

I have family who surprised me by voting Trump. She's an otherwise very loving person, in to wellness and family and "live laugh love" sort of person.

I worry that if I ask why she chose Trump, it might cause offence immediately - by questioning it, it can be argued I'm suggesting she's wrong. No-one can just have a discussion anymore.

I might summon up the courage to ask anyway. It's not like I see her often.

Philadelphia is about to report another batch of votes that they’ve just counted (or should that be “found” ). That should narrow the PA numbers.

So has the left done anything wrong or have they simply been slow to realise the dark tactics of populism?

From the point of view of winning elections (which is their job), these are one and the same.

Morning. You've all been busy!

@Newjobnewslob “Mr/Madam Speaker” refers to the “Leader of the House of Representatives”, but the current Speaker is Nancy Pelosi, so it’s obv not her. It might be a former Speaker, I’m not sure if the title remains as an honorary.

I agree with the posts on essentially, why are people voting against their own interests.

It’s a multitude of reasons I think, the right have vilified the left, the left appears to be unreachable (metropolitan elites). The left needs to improve its message and make it easily accessible.

I had really hoped that the U.K. BLM marches would expand into general social justice and inequality movements but no such luck.

McConnell just tweeted
“ Here’s how this must work in our great country: Every legal vote should be counted. Any illegally-submitted ballots must not. All sides must get to observe the process. And the courts are here to apply the laws & resolve disputes.

That's how Americans' votes decide the result.”

Those who follow the right seem to be happy to absorb the lies - Covid will go away, I had the best economy etc.

Will happy absorb stop the vote/count the vote simultaneously, complain that democracy is being lost while standing outside a vote count with a gun. How can you support both?

Even though the truth is right there. Why does this happen?

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

Democrats are not left-wing in the slightest, *@BlueCatRedCat*. Apparently, the majority of the US has no idea what socialism is and when Democrats have attempted to put even vaguely "socialist" policies in place, (good cheap/free healthcare for all at point of delivery being a prime example) they have been consistently blocked by a Republican Congress, certainly since Obama was elected, and also with Clinton, if I recall correctly, so in my opinion, you are wrong to equally put the onus on the Democrats for the current shit-show. The blame lies squarely with Republicans from where I'm standing.

When Bernie Sanders, running as a Democrat Presidential candidate, attempted to put forward his vaguely socialist policies, it was the Democratic Party that blocked him. In 2016, he won conventions in several states, but those state reps refused to nominate him and nominated Clinton instead. Donna Brazille, DNC Chair, fed Clinton the Democratic debate questions in advance. Come the election, many Bernie voters either abstained or actively voted for Trump. The Democrats are not absolved from responsibility for Trump.

twitter.com/MissGFYCuffy/status/1324199497388482560?s=19

😂😂😂

CNN last night... he didn't blink...

twitter.com/TheRealDWoo/status/1324691619136835584

'I'm not sure how PornHub got in on the Presidential race...'

[quote CaveMum]@Newjobnewslob “Mr/Madam Speaker” refers to the “Leader of the House of Representatives”, but the current Speaker is Nancy Pelosi, so it’s obv not her. It might be a former Speaker, I’m not sure if the title remains as an honorary.[/quote]
Once you have a title in US politics, you keep it forever. It makes things quite confusing.

Completely agree about Bernie Sanders, @BlueCatRedCat.

@roussette

The mark of a professional!! 😂😂 Proper made me laugh!!

MrsWarleggan not sure if it's fake or not. Either way it gave me a laugh... his face!

Results of 20,000 ballots due in the next 10 - 15 mins from PA.

(So doesnt look like this batch will be the one to tip the state, it'll probably the next one).

If anyone is interested in checking up on the counting in Philadelphia, you can
www.philadelphiavotes.com/en/home/item/1882-live_stream

@BlueCatRedCat that is very confusing! I knew President/Vice-President was for life, but that’s an awful lot of Congressmen/women and Senators!

@roussette

It's the side eye! 😂😂 He's been caught with that before!!! 😂😂

StatisticallyChallenged

I think a big part of the issue is constantly telling people that their thoughts and feelings are wrong. It feels like politicians - of all sides but especially left and centre (hi lib dems!) - are trying to enforce their view of what people should want, rather than listening and enacting. We're told that we should think X, that if we believe Y we're wrong, and it's very alienating. Voting for Trump is for many an expression of frustrating at not being heard, just like Brexit is here.

This x 1000.

@BlueCatRedCat I like Bernie and agree that his policies are far from what I would consider 'socialist' but I'm not convinced that the Democrats were wrong not to run him in 2016 or 2020. I don't think America is ready, I think it would have been Corbyn in 2019 all over again and he would have driven even more people into the arms of Trump. If this many people have been convinced that Biden is a far-left radical, imagine the reaction that Bernie would have had! As much as I was disappointed by the uninspiring choice of Biden, I think on reflection he probably was the right choice for this election. He seems to have managed to capture a broad enough coalition, and his compassion worked in the context of Covid. The Democratic party has some serious thinking to do about its future though.

@Iwillneverbesatisfied

I'm getting fed up with this.

It also seems that Biden's lead is narrowing in most states, so there is still a chance Trump could win?

It's a possibility. That's what's driving me insane