My daughter has become terrified of our neighbour.

[Tillygetsit]

We have a very sweet old lady who has lived next door to us ever since we moved to this house 7 years ago. She often in the past has popped in for coffee, brought the dcs presents and us runner beans from her garden. She wouldn't hurt a fly.
Obviously we haven't seen as much of her with the Covid situation, just the odd wave and me phoning to see if she wants anything from the shops. She doesn't as she has nearby family but it's an excuse to chat and keep contact.
She often waves at dcs as we plod home from school or go for a walk. The last few times this has happened, dd1 who is 6 has screamed and run up the road. It is really embarrassing.
Ndn has phoned to see if she's done anything wrong (no) and I have had several chats with dd to get to the bottom of why she has suddenly decided she's afraid of ndn. All she says is that she hates her and her horrible witchy face
I've told her she's being very unkind, that ndn is a lovely person we've all known for a long time, that waving back and not being silly is the right thing to do but this is met with hands over ears screaming shut up.
My dd1 has always been a bit overdramatic but I honestly don't know how to handle this.
Am I being unreasonable to take a hard line about this?

[randomer]

The kid is 6. Wave/don't wave but don't be a rude brat.

Next.....

[Onadifferentuniverse]

No, I think I’m good thanks.

I can’t imagine anyone that I know would continue waving at a child that reacted like this and was clearly feeling uncomfortable, then calling the mum to find out what they’ve done wrong.

And it’s baffling that everyone is saying the child is wrong.

[Bumpsadaisie]

[quote Onadifferentuniverse]@Bumpsadaisie her daughter is terrified of this women, you’re allowed to be uncomfortable about someone without them having to have done something wrong and that’s fine too.[/quote]
I think it's part of our job as parents to help children manage and understand their emotions. And that this is how they eventually come to be able to manage their strong feelings themselves. Pure acknowledgement and validation is only half the task.

I think if this child experiences ONLY validation of her feelings she will feel very uncontained.

As I said somewhere above I do think it's important not to rubbish the child's experience and emotions.

[Onadifferentuniverse]

I don’t agree with the witchy comment btw.

But my god, how many times has she displayed discomfort and been ignored?

She’s 6 and doesn’t know how to tell an adult how she’s feeling

[Pumperthepumper]

@TheSeedsOfADream

Or replace the words "elderly next door neighbour" with "black neighbour" or "severely disabled and non verbal next door neighbour" and then justify this child's abhorrent behaviour.

It still works though. My SIL has a very obvious physical disability, children often stare at her. She’d be the first to say to talk to them about it, not punish them for doing something they can’t help.

[randomer]

The older lady may be lonely, may look forward to the wave, the neighbourliness and the 6 year old should have some manners.

I observed from afar a friends GC. One day we passed by in the car on our way to a holiday. In high spirits we gave dear Fred a cheery wave. He wrapped his arms around himself and stamped his foot. Ah well

Guess what, he has turned into a sulky, entitled rude young adult.

[TheSeedsOfADream]

Yes, I know Pumper, my ndn when I was growing up was a severely disabled teenager. And we were certainly not permitted to throw tantrums because he scared us. We had it explained to us by our parents that running away screaming was a deeply nasty thing to do.

[ThePlantsitter]

I sympathise with your daughter. But I don't think you're being to oharsh on her. If you're still reading this.

I think in your shoes I would be, like you, very firm with the behaviour and use the fear she obviously feels as a starting point to talk about misogynistic attitudes about old ladies. In terms a six year old would understand obvs. Roald Dahl is a very entertaining writer but his stories are full of beautiful slender young ladies who can do no wrong and warty old fat crones who are evil. You can start to unpick this even at 6 I think.

[CustardySergeant]

foxyroxyyy "How do you know the neighbour isn't actually a witch who knows exactly what's she's done and has scared the little girl in to not saying?"

WTF? Are you trying to be funny?

[Pumperthepumper]

@TheSeedsOfADream

Yes, I know Pumper, my ndn when I was growing up was a severely disabled teenager. And we were certainly not permitted to throw tantrums because he scared us. We had it explained to us by our parents that running away screaming was a deeply nasty thing to do.

So what’s the issue? The OP’s looking for advice on how to deal with it, not pretending she’s just going to ignore it.

[TheSeedsOfADream]

I wasn't referring to the OP but to the utterly vile comments about the neighbour.

[ThePlantsitter]

Additionally I think you need to relax about this a bit. It is embarrassing and unfortunate that she is screaming and running away from your neighbour but she is six. YES you need to tell her firmly to stop it. But it's also in the range of normal. try to be calm and fairly casual when you talk to her about it. The danger is that she becomes the focus of loads of attention for this behaviour. I get it is mortifying and upsetting for you though.

[RiftGibbon]

@Whatup

Explain what witches/wiccans are? Nice people who worship the moon and might give you a biscuit if you ask?

Yes, exactly! The only witches I know are polite, respectful and considerate.
The idea of a scary witch had come from somewhere and it is this that needs to be unpicked. Rudeness shouldn't be tolerated but I don't think it's helpful to dismiss a child's feelings.

[Mrsfrumble]

It’s the running away and screaming that seems so needlessly demonstrative. It would be one thing for a frightened child with an overactive imagination to hide behind their parent or not make eye contact with an adult who reminded them of a scary fictional character. But by running and screaming; showing her dislike in such a loud, obvious manner; it seems as if the OP’s child is deliberately trying to hurt and humiliate the neighbour.

OP presumably your daughter is always with you when you see the neighbour? Have you asked her what she thinks the neighbour could do to hurt her while she’s with you?

I agree with previous posters that we as parents need to work on breaking the association of ugliness and disfigurement with evil and malice that so many stories / films / tv programs present. It’s something I raise with my children often and I hope I’m teaching them to think critically about harmful tropes.

[brokendownbysexandage]

I have a 6 year old with a pretty vivid imagination.
Like others have said, I'd approach the fear and the behaviour separately.
For the fear, which sounds like it's real, I'd talk with DD about how outside appearances don't define how a person is. I'd bring in examples from real life, books or movie of attractive people who are really mean and outwardly unattractive people who are really nice. I'd also ask if something happened to me and I became ugly, would you still love me etc.
Also talk about how there are no such things as witches!

And for the behaviour, i would take a hard line too but you can do it gently and empathetically.She is old enough to understand that her actions can have consequences on others. Before you leave the house, discuss with her what you expect from her and strategies to achieve it, like she can squeeze your hand tightly. Explain why, even while being understanding that she may still be scared. I'd also reinforce that she's safe, that she's with you and you're her mummy and would never let anything bad happen to her. Maybe even a small treat for good behaviour.

Good luck OP!!!

[ItWorriesMeThisKindofThing]

The 6 year old is deliberately trying to hurt feelings and/or should know better than to be so rude...

But the elderly adult is entitled to feel “shattered” and can’t possibly understand a 6 year old might have an irrational fear of them?

Reminds me of the thread when a child privately expressed a dislike of an adult and the adult turned out to be in earshot - again the child being held to higher standards than the adult who has done their growing up already.

Yes of course the behaviour needs to be dealt with but why have so many people lost sight of the fact it takes a whole childhood to learn how to be an adult?

[tearinyourhand]

I've suddenly realised that today is 31st October and suddenly this talk of witchiness seems a bit well timed.

[ThePlantsitter]

I sometimes think people who are very harsh on 6 year olds etc either have very tiny children themselves and so bigger children seem like adults, or have adult children and have forgotten what six year olds are like. 6 is tiny really. There is a reason the 'infant' stage doesn't end 'til 7 - most kids are really little in their minds until around then (and later tbh).

[Mrsfrumble]

My children are 8 & 9, but even 2 or 3 years ago I’d have taken them claiming to “hate” someone for “looking ugly and witchy” very seriously.

[ThePlantsitter]

Mrsfrumble - yes and quite rightly, but you would understand it wouldn't you? Even though the behaviour is obviously unacceptable?

[Mrsfrumble]

ThePlantsitter honestly I’d be disappointed if they’d used that language at 6; I’ve discouraged “hate” and “ugly” since they were tiny. I understand that disability / disfigurement / old age / any kind of physical difference can make us feel uncomfortable, but we have to overcome it to ensure that marginalised people don’t become further excluded.

[WingingItSince1973]

Wow there's some really harsh parents on here! Never ignore a child's u turn on feelings about someone or something. I remember being 6 years old and being terrified on a school trip over something which led to me having night terrors and not wanting to be left alone. Rather than empathise I was classed as a rude, bratty child and ended up being locked in a cupboard at night so my parents could get some sleep! Yes thats extreme but its taught me empathy! 6 years old is still young. Something has triggered her to be genuinely scared. Its awful for the older neighbour but its not something you should be punishing your child for. Genuine fear is irrational to most people. Think of spider or other phobias. As others have said maybe she's seen a programme or even a Halloween decoration in the shops on TV etc and likened your neighbour to that. Genuine fear is absolutely horrible. Xxx

[ThePlantsitter]

Mrsfrumble I absolutely agree. I just think a 'where did that emotion come from? Let's talk about why it doesn't make sense and how it could hurt someone' works better than 'stop feeling that at once!' Screaming and running away is wrong to be sure, but I certainly don't think that in a six year old it is necessarily a deliberate attempt to hurt someone - depending on the child, as always.

[Mrsfrumble]

Yes, you’re right ThePlantsitter. If my own children were genuinely frightened in those circumstances they’d hide behind me / go quiet / become tearful, but wouldn’t scream or run; that sort of performative reaction would be messing around and I would come down hard. I accept that other children might be more demonstrative / dramatic.

[CatteStreet]

@ItWorriesMeThisKindofThing

The 6 year old is deliberately trying to hurt feelings and/or should know better than to be so rude...

But the elderly adult is entitled to feel “shattered” and can’t possibly understand a 6 year old might have an irrational fear of them?

Reminds me of the thread when a child privately expressed a dislike of an adult and the adult turned out to be in earshot - again the child being held to higher standards than the adult who has done their growing up already.

Yes of course the behaviour needs to be dealt with but why have so many people lost sight of the fact it takes a whole childhood to learn how to be an adult?

All of this. Also what ThePlantsitter said.