My daughter has become terrified of our neighbour.

[Tillygetsit]

We have a very sweet old lady who has lived next door to us ever since we moved to this house 7 years ago. She often in the past has popped in for coffee, brought the dcs presents and us runner beans from her garden. She wouldn't hurt a fly.
Obviously we haven't seen as much of her with the Covid situation, just the odd wave and me phoning to see if she wants anything from the shops. She doesn't as she has nearby family but it's an excuse to chat and keep contact.
She often waves at dcs as we plod home from school or go for a walk. The last few times this has happened, dd1 who is 6 has screamed and run up the road. It is really embarrassing.
Ndn has phoned to see if she's done anything wrong (no) and I have had several chats with dd to get to the bottom of why she has suddenly decided she's afraid of ndn. All she says is that she hates her and her horrible witchy face
I've told her she's being very unkind, that ndn is a lovely person we've all known for a long time, that waving back and not being silly is the right thing to do but this is met with hands over ears screaming shut up.
My dd1 has always been a bit overdramatic but I honestly don't know how to handle this.
Am I being unreasonable to take a hard line about this?

[BlueThistles]

I would think your DD needs to be believed by you; before you tackle behaviour. She needs to know you are on her side! Then talk to her about how to behave - what is or isn't acceptable.

jesus christ almighty 🙄

[DougRossIsTheBoss]

I also agree with separating the feeling from the behaviour

It's OK to feel scared but we do not have to act in a way that upsets others. Aged 2 or 3 yes but aged 6 she should be able to exert some control on it.

Parents don't do their children any favours by pandering to phobic anxiety as avoidance is well known to make it worse. If you don't tackle this is she going to start screaming at all old ladies? I despair of people who allow their kids to freak out about spiders or balloons and go to elaborate lengths to avoid such things. Better to tackle it early on before you find life is being ruled by irrational fears and you can't go anywhere there might be a spider or a balloon (genuine examples of children I have known)

[MoonJelly]

@Joditaylorfan

I would think your DD needs to be believed by you; before you tackle behaviour. She needs to know you are on her side! Then talk to her about how to behave - what is or isn't acceptable.

But what is she supposed to be believed about? She hasn't said the neighbour has done anything wrong, she just says she has a horrible witchy face. She doesn't need to be believed about that.

[graceelli121]

I feel so sad for this elderly lady

[Aquamarine1029]

this is met with hands over ears screaming shut up

"You let your DD scream at you to 'shut up'? Christ almighty..."

FFS. Totally unacceptable. Discipline your child. Her behaviour is horrible.

[Itisbetter]

She can behave more appropriately but I’d imagine the woman frightens her. Not all sweet old ladies are kind. Tell her what to do rather than what not to do. What do you want her to do when she is scared of someone. Ask school for support if you need it.

[Aquamarine1029]

Ask school for support if you need it.

As if the school doesn't have enough shit to contend with. This is a parenting issue, and this "old lady" isn't unkind. The op's daughter doesn't like her simply due to her "witchy face."

[WildImaginings]

Your poor, poor neighbour.
Your child was so appallingly and overtly rude, more than once, that she had to call you to see if she'd done something wrong?
Reading that genuinely made me upset.
Your child is rude and she's being a brat. You're doing her absolutely no favours by not sorting this behaviour out.

[DownThePlath]

@Itisbetter

She can behave more appropriately but I’d imagine the woman frightens her. Not all sweet old ladies are kind. Tell her what to do rather than what not to do. What do you want her to do when she is scared of someone. Ask school for support if you need it.

She's frightened of her face, OP states in her post that the lady has been nothing but kind to them. Jesus fucking christ.

[Tillygetsit]

Thank you for your comments. Of course I discipline my child when she shouts shut up at me. I just took it as read that sensible people would realise that and I wouldn't have to write it.
I have done all the things suggested. I have told her firmly she is being unkind. I have asked where this has come from. I do not pander to her wanting to cross the road so we avoid ndns house.
She is not a bratty child usually. Dh has also tried to talk to her about this on their own but not successfully. I love my ndn as you can see from my OP. I was worried I was coming down too hard on her...I've taken a pretty tough line an dh thought maybe it was a phase andwould be better to ignore it hence my post.

[Aquamarine1029]

I've taken a pretty tough line an dh thought maybe it was a phase andwould be better to ignore it hence my post.

This is absolutely not behaviour to be ignored. Not even once.

[Josette77]

She'd be straight in time out every time she did this if I was her mum. How are you disciplining her?

[NewtoHolland]

She could be being naughty for attention or it could be her fight flight freeze stress response...has she watched something you're not aware of may be? I caught my two half way through the spooky cartoon Greenpeace advert the other day and it had totally freaked them out.
If it's stress and worry you can talk to her about what's happening in her brain, her guard dog (the amygdala) etc and tips for how to manage it.
Maybe role play the situation and you can show that the lady is really upset and calling you to see what she's done wrong.
I talk with my DD about being pleasant...and about my honest feeling a to that I'm feeling embarrassed that she....
Another approach (while both calm) is to say hmm I have a problem I need your help with...I'm feeling really sad for our neighbour because when we wall past you won't wave and you run away...and making a list together of different things she can do..You can write down all the ideas and then cross out together the ones that don't sound good to you both.
Setting clear expectations might help too xx

[Porridgeoat]

I’d wonder what she had been watching on telly and clamp down on that

I’d also introduce some books with positive relationships with elderly. Grandparents or similar

[Porridgeoat]

www.amazon.co.uk/How-Babysit-Grandma-Jean-Reagan/dp/1444918125?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[Mummyoflittledragon]

TV, Hollywood in general is full of generalisations. It seems beauty and youth as linked with purity and kindness and all to often old age as cursed or twisted. Your dd has fallen for stereotypes due to something she’s seen or read, I imagine. I don’t think telling your dd off is going to be very helpful. She needs deprogramming imo.

My dd saw a child psychologist for a while. One of the things she did was teach dd that beautiful people are not necessarily all good. IE criminals, who had hurt people etc. She printed off a series of photos of women - younger and older, pretty and not pretty. Then showed the photos one by one or perhaps two at a time and asked dd to say which was kind and nice and which was mean. She could then say oh this one, they’re in prison etc. Idk if they were real people or stock photos as she never went into a lot of detail. Dd was 5/6 at the time and it was about breaking stereotypes.

After you’ve done that, maybe your dd will be ready to explain why she feels that way and you can talk about fantasy and real life etc.

[DeKraai]

Your daughter is in fight or flight mode. Her nervous system is in control of her, not the rational part of her brain. She's telling you she's afraid and even if she's lying and being over dramatic I'd have the same suggestion.

She also knows the behaviour isn't ok, so it's not suddenly that she's become an uncontrollable child in all areas (from what you've said).

Also we want to teach our children to listen to their instincts. We don't want them to learn that they need to prioritise someone else's feelings over their own instincts. Particularly with women, that doesn't lead anywhere good.

So, acknowledge her fear. Tell her you understand it. You don't feel the same way but you understand that for little girls, old ladies can be scary sometimes. Promise her she's not a witch because you're and her DF would never live near a witch. Tell her you're there for her and want her to trust you (give some examples of things you do that she likes) and say that you want her to hold your hand when you pass the NDN and squeeze it if she feels scared. Tell her she can squeeze as hard as she can if she needs. And then do a few practice squeeze at home. Also tell her that you don't want her running off screaming but you do want her to feel safe - and the safest place is with you. Have her walk on the opposite side of you to the neighbour and to start with don't ask her to wave or smile, just stay with you. Later add in the other bits (or she'll get over it and go back to normal anyway!).

When I was about the same age I became utterly petrified of some old women who looked like witches to me. I can still remember the terror. I was also petrified of an elderly man who drove me to school. He did nothing wrong, I just found his glasses (brownish lenses) and the lines on his face very scary.

So a sort of adult version of this situation would be you seeing a gang with knives walking towards you down the street, you running inside in a panic. Once inside the door, you're berated for not waving at them and smiling politely and then in trouble for it! You'd probably not respond with the most polite version of yourself either!

Speak to NDN and telling her DD is going through a phase at the moment and tell her it's not just with her if that helps. She's an elderly woman, she's lived a long time and not some kind of fragile flower. I'm sure she understands children go through phases etc.

[footprintsintheslow]

How about giving her an alternative strategy. Instead of running away screaming maybe she could hide behind your legs or close her eyes and hug you tightly.

Sounds like she has a genuine fear of this woman for whatever reason. She will grow out of it and in the meantime she needs to have help handling it whilst not looking rude. Tell her you can figure this out together.

[PurpleFlower1983]

At 6 she is old enough to know better and this behaviour needs curbing. Definitely sounds like attention seeking. ‘Horrible, witchy face’? I would be mortified.

[Dreading2020sSeasonFinale]

@Ohalrightthen

I'd be having a firm chat with her about manners and rudeness, and telling her in no uncertain terms that it is unacceptable to behave like that with anyone. She's 6 years old, not 9 months.

The hands over ears and screaming shut up would have serious consequences too. She's being incredibly rude, you need to nip this in the bud as it will only get worse as she gets older.

This.

My first thought was "I'd give her an absolute bollocking if she were mine. How DARE she put her hands over her ears and scream shut up.

[CutToChase]

She sounds like a rude spoiled child

[Misbeehived]

I’m kind of with your husband in that I think the problem with shouting and punishments is she may well be genuinely very scared and so this really won’t help and may actually be feeding the behaviour.

I would go with the approach of it’s ok to be scared but you need to be polite with lots of praise for acting normally around your neighbour and ignore silly behaviour. Bring your neighbour in so she knows she’s not doing anything wrong and that this is all just a silly phase. I’m sure she’ll grow out of it. I’ve noticed 6 seems to be bringing out my son and his friends dramatic side!

[Valleygirl27]

You've spoken to her firmly so next time I'd be putting in place consequences if it continues. Loss of screen time or something. Absolutely unacceptable to be allowing her to treat someone like that.

I'll never forget one time I said something nasty about a neighbour of mine and what he looked like when I was around your daughter's age. I didn't even say it to him but my mum gave me such a bollocking that I never spoke about anyone like that ever again and I still remember it and feel a bit ashamed of myself for viewing someone like that.

She's 6, unless she has a support need affecting her social skills, she's old enough to understand what is appropriate behaviour towards others and know that this isn't ok.

[Misbeehived]

And yes agree with others saying empathise. My message is a bit more curtly written! Good luck!

[CutToChase]

@DeKraai

Jesus Christ. What is it with this "Generation Special"?

Not everything is an in depth issue waiting to be psychoanalysed and understood.

Her daughter is just playing up and attention seeking and hurting somebody's feelings while shes at it.

"Also we want to teach our children to listen to their instincts. We don't want them to learn that they need to prioritise someone else's feelings over their own instincts. Particularly with women, that doesn't lead anywhere good."
No you know what doesnt lead anywhere good? Playing into the old single women are witches myth. Its 2020 for crying out loud.

"Tell her you understand it. You don't feel the same way but you understand that for little girls, old ladies can be scary sometimes. Promise her she's not a witch because you're and her DF would never live near a witch. Tell her you're there for her and want her to trust you (give some examples of things you do that she likes) and say that you want her to hold your hand when you pass the NDN and squeeze it if she feels scared. Tell her she can squeeze as hard as she can if she needs. And then do a few practice squeeze at home. Also tell her that you don't want her running off screaming but you do want her to feel safe - and the safest place is with you. Have her walk on the opposite side of you to the neighbour and to start with don't ask her to wave or smile, just stay with you. Later add in the other bits (or she'll get over it and go back to normal anyway!)."

So engage in nauseating pandering then?

No OP, just tell her she is behaving like a spoilt little girl, she is hurting a woman's feelings and probably making her feel a bit sad, and that if she cant walk down the street in a well behaved way then she wont be going anywhere.

Oh, and that you do not tell people to shut up. Ever.