My daughter has become terrified of our neighbour.

[Tillygetsit]

We have a very sweet old lady who has lived next door to us ever since we moved to this house 7 years ago. She often in the past has popped in for coffee, brought the dcs presents and us runner beans from her garden. She wouldn't hurt a fly.
Obviously we haven't seen as much of her with the Covid situation, just the odd wave and me phoning to see if she wants anything from the shops. She doesn't as she has nearby family but it's an excuse to chat and keep contact.
She often waves at dcs as we plod home from school or go for a walk. The last few times this has happened, dd1 who is 6 has screamed and run up the road. It is really embarrassing.
Ndn has phoned to see if she's done anything wrong (no) and I have had several chats with dd to get to the bottom of why she has suddenly decided she's afraid of ndn. All she says is that she hates her and her horrible witchy face
I've told her she's being very unkind, that ndn is a lovely person we've all known for a long time, that waving back and not being silly is the right thing to do but this is met with hands over ears screaming shut up.
My dd1 has always been a bit overdramatic but I honestly don't know how to handle this.
Am I being unreasonable to take a hard line about this?

[Bluntness100]

I think this requires a sanction or punishment every time she does it. So straight in the house and some privilege removed

She’s six and should understand this is incredibly rude. The “talking” is not working. Sit her down and explain to her if she’s rude again she will receive a sanction. And every single time she does it until she learns to show some manners to the woman.

[Dontforgetyourbrolly]

I do remember being a child and some adults being scary , but I wouldn't have shouted shutup at my mum .

[BessieSurtees]

First I agree with others who say this can genuinely happen for no reason. I remember being frightened of certain people when I was a child. Some fear is irrational. I remember my mother talking to me about manners, not staring, not hiding, not being rude and the difference between being uncomfortable, worried or real fear. I can remember visiting an old aunt in hospital and it was the first time I saw her without teeth, I was scared of her I thought she was a secret witch, but I can’t ever remember wanting to scream and run.

I don’t think it’s a phase I think she needs to know she has to walk past, she needs to know it’s the same lady though her appearance may have changed during lockdown. She needs to know she is being rude and needs to know that when you walk past the house she will be safe holding your hand. Some times, some six year olds can’t make sense of their emotions. How often does she scream or cover her ears? If it’s just this instance it won’t be hard to nip it in the bud.

[lifestooshort123]

Wow, your parenting has been flamed a bit. You've had loads of advice but my two-penn'orth would be: remind her each time you are going to pass the house that she needs to be polite to your neighbour and tell her what the consequences will be if she isn't (and follow through) . Good luck.

[randomer]

How about a firm " Stop that right now"

[MimiSunshine]

So a sort of adult version of this situation would be you seeing a gang with knives walking towards you down the street, you running inside in a panic. Once inside the door, you're berated for not waving at them and smiling politely and then in trouble for it! You'd probably not respond with the most polite version of yourself either!

WTF???

That isn’t even remotely the same at all. Your example is an actual scary and dangerous encounter and No one would ever berate you for running away.

[Zug2]

Maybe she had a nightmare about the lady.

My DD, at about age 5 , had a nightmare that our house was broken in to by 2 men and the car was stolen. She was distraught and terrified when she woke up and even though we showed her the car in the driveway she was terrified and convinced it had happened.

She is 17 now, still remembers it, and recently asked me if we had lied to her about it being a dream, in an effort to make it less scary for her.

[footprintsintheslow]

I think there's a middle ground between saying stop being a brat and pandering to the girl.

She's obviously scared for whatever reason and I hope OP doesn't listen to some of the 'ice queen mother' advice on here.
Equally I wouldn't pander fo her completely. She needs to be helped to have a strategy to cope with people she doesn't like. Just like we do as adults.

I can't stand my elderly neighbour but I smile and am polite whilst exiting any conversation quite quickly. That's my strategy. This little girl needs her own as the current one isn't working.

[Tellmetruth4]

Do you think her immature brain is directing Covid anxiety on to your neighbour? A lot of news has been about elderly dying of Covid. Do you think she now has a negative association with old people thinking old people = Covid = illness/death?

[bloodyhairy]

Lots of handwringing here ...
I agree with the previous poster who said that there has to be some balance. Not a total dismissal of your daughter's feelings, but some disciplining too. Simply flaming her for her behaviour won't get to the root of it at all.
Just a thought, but is she NT?

[DeKraai]

@MimiSunshine

So a sort of adult version of this situation would be you seeing a gang with knives walking towards you down the street, you running inside in a panic. Once inside the door, you're berated for not waving at them and smiling politely and then in trouble for it! You'd probably not respond with the most polite version of yourself either!

WTF???

That isn’t even remotely the same at all. Your example is an actual scary and dangerous encounter and No one would ever berate you for running away.

Actually for a child who BELIEVES the woman is a scary, dangerous witch, it's something that would elicit a similar panic. I didn't say the gang were actually chasing the adult btw, but the adult perceived they were in danger and responded automatically.

Nobody would berate the adult because we generally don't and we would believe the adult's panic was real. And if that woman was dangerous, then nobody would berate the daughter either.

The difference is that looking at a child's situation through adults eyes, she's being entirely silly (and extremely rude). Looking at it through a child's eyes, it makes more sense.

The gang example was to give a reminder of what panic at perceived danger feels like. Because I don't think many people could imagine (and from the posts on this thread that can't) what it's like to be afraid of a witch. But there are things we're afraid of and faced with them and the reaction DD gets to her expression of that fear, the politest response most of us would have is "shut up"!

[TitianaTitsling]

So a sort of adult version of this situation would be you seeing a gang with knives walking towards you down the street, you running inside in a panic. Once inside the door, you're berated for not waving at them and smiling politely and then in trouble for it! You'd probably not respond with the most polite version of yourself either!

How on earth does this compare in any way, shape or form?
So once we are old women have the same threat level as a weaponised gang?!!

[TitianaTitsling]

Cross posted there with my response but still stand by it. Are you trained in psychology DeKraai, because I would find that level of pandering wrong.

[Footle]

@Tellmetruth4 , yes, I think you've got a point there.

[Footle]

The covid connection, I mean.

[midnightstar66]

I would think your DD needs to be believed

I'm pretty sure OP does believe that her dd thinks this woman looks like a witch. She isn't a witch so she doesn't believe that part. I don't think the dd actually believes she's a witch either, she just doesn't like how she looks which is rude and incredibly unkind, and she needs to know this. OP you aren't being to hard and I'd definitely continue with serious consequences and talks about judging people by their looks.

[DeKraai]

It's also worth noting that she's 6. The part of our brains (prefrontal cortex) that deals with rational thinking is nowhere developed at that age. Children respond more "irrationally" to things than adults, for a biological reason.

She has a link in her brain between old lady NDN + witch. This connection will fade over time, and by "pandering" to her you can help her develop other connections and downplay that, as well as teach her nervous system not to be afraid at this stimulus (the NDN).

But none of that means telling the DD that this is socially acceptable and that it's ok to speak the way she has. She's young and has to learn (and it seems OP is on top of the fact it's undesirable behaviour). It's more that there's an element of compassionate understanding missing that ultimately alienates the DD and can make the situation worse.

[LakieLady]

When I was about 5, I developed a fear of black people (this was 1960, and the numbers of BAME people where I lived was incredibly low).

My father said twigged that this had been triggered by a cartoon of black tribal people, supposedly cannibals, boiling a white person in a pot that had been in a newspaper. My mum explained that this was just a silly joke, not a true thing, and that it was very unkind to judge people by their appearance'

Maybe a little chat with your daughter about witches not being real might help, OP, and letting your daughter know that if she lives long enough, she might well end up looking like a (fictional) witch!

[smartiecake]

I would involve your DD in baking or buying a cake for NDN and take it round with your DD. Stand at a social distance but have a 10 minute chat face to face. Your NDN would probably love that and it would do your DD good to have a friendly chat and see that your NDN is nice. Seeing her from just behind a window is probably adding to the fear. And prepare your DD beforehand- no silly behaviour and no screaming. She has to be polite and speak.

[missyB1]

A pp had good advice. As you approach the neighbors house remind your dd of how you expect her to behave. Warn her what consequence there will be if she plays up. Stay calm but firm and follow through.

[vanillandhoney]

A PP up thread is right - could she be connecting old people with COVID and death?

[howtobe]

Oh god I’d be having a firm word with her and then if that didn’t work I’d be looking at removal of privileges I.e iPad and going out to play with friends. Mumsnet will take a softly softly approach but your daughter is behaving like a rude little girl. I have a six year old boy who would know that is mean and not a nice way to behave.

[Veterinari]

Unfortunately popular media does send insidious messages around older women - it's part of the ageism and misogyny woven into popular culture and society. It's a shame a 6 year old girl has already internalised those messages.

I'd be clear to her that at some point she too will be an older woman, and that her behaviour is incredibly rude and unacceptable. If it persists there should be consequences.

She doesn't have to be super nice to your neighbour but basic civility rather than overt rudeness is reasonable

[Nottherealslimshady]

I wouldn't tackle it by just saying that she's being rude and she needs to be polite even though she's scared of an adult. She needs to learn to understand that fear, being polite to an adult you're afraid of is dangerous.
You need to work out why she's afraid of her and explain that the lady has always been nice and she's not nasty or scary. I'm gonna guess its because she's aging and her face is changing and witches look like old ladies so she's making that connection. You need to deal with this but I dont agree with the "be nice to all adults, its rude to be scared of them".

[CaptainMyCaptain]

@TruckinRight

Do none of you remember being a child?

There was an old woman at my junior school I was abjectly terrified of. She worked in the canteen and I would forgo food rather than go near her if she was serving. I couldn't bear to look at her. I was genuinely terrified.

But that doesn't mean the child should get away with being rude and she needs to get over her irrational fear. She needs to learn that judging people by their physical appearance is wrong. If she gets away with this what's next? Refusing to engage with bald people, disabled people, black people?