to not understand why so many people are against adoption?

[Confusedamonium]

Before deciding to adopt, I'd never really been aware of this but it appears that a huge chunk of society are really, really against adoption - and I just don't understand why.

• SIL thinks children should be in foster care in case their parents change their minds or change their behaviour. She thinks permanently removing a child (no matter how much support has been offered or how long/severe the problems are) is unfair on the biological parents.
• DM thinks that no one can love an adopted child as much as a biological child - despite what we tell her.

People make comments about how cruel it is that children are taken from their parents (to both the children and the parents). Can anyone actually explain why they think it's better that children either float around foster placements or remain in abusive homes? What really shocks me is that foster carers are perceived as saintly carers for innocent souls and adopters are perceived as evil child snatchers. My parents foster and get no end of praise for it but one mention of adoption and people turn frosty.

@EmeraldShamrock

No parent... NO parent... has a child removed simply because they had one breakdown. The system would be in gridlock if that were the case I'll leave you with this. I've no skin in this discussion. It is uncomfortable watching if you want to skip directly to 17.30 minutes onwards there is a mc speaker too for balance. It is from 2016. There are plenty of other recent investigations. m.youtube.com/watch?v=va1N9r2Vieg&t=1027s

No parent... NO parent... has a child removed simply because they ha

Well, I thought you were out, but ok

I’ve watched the few mins after the 17.30 time stamp you suggest.

I have no idea what you think it proves.

A mother goes to a GP saying they are worried their son is in danger due to their mental health
An entirely appropriate safeguarding referral is made off the back of the information she gave.
A week later, the mother wants the case closed.
Social services flag the file, reflecting the concerns of the mother a few days previously
Instead of working with SS, the mother starts legal action
Enquiry lasts 12 days Albeit, confirmation of outcome takes far too long.
Name gets cleared. Child remains with birth family.

I’m guessing I must have missed something?

???

I have come across this and just stare blankly while inside telling them to "back the fuck off". My son is adopted. I love him that is all that matters, I also have a lot of love for the lovely lady was his first mum, she is ace. Less so for the idiot first dad who treated the mother of his four children like shit.....I digress. I fight the fight because I have to, I call out stupid opinions and embarrass people into submission. I take no prisoners. My own dad was adopted, my husband was adopted and his dad was also adopted. Send your idiots my way im more than ready.

I am likely to be flamed for this but I don’t believe that a parent who has a child removed should get a second chance and be allowed to keep any subsequent children.

I am actually in favour of sterilisation in the case of parents who abuse their children to the point they are removed but given this is apparently against their human rights I would settle for a policy where all children are removed at birth after the first one.

My DP grew up in foster care. He was ultimately removed at the age of seven but before then he was abused as a baby to the point he now has a permanent disability. He remembers being beaten and sexually abused by his mother. Remembers her telling him to do certain things to her. Remembers his dad throwing things in anger and hitting him, stamping on his toys.

In the meantime they went on to have three more children. And it was only after the final one was born that she was removed at birth and placed for adoption and the others were removed into permanent foster care.

And at some point the parents split up, and the mother moved out of the area and had three more children. Those children were told about their siblings, but were told that everything was lies, and that nothing bad had ever happened to them. Given my DP has a permanent, and visible, disability I’m not quite sure how she could explain that one. DP met one of his half siblings for the first time this year, and she told him that their mum was a good person who said she’d been the victim of SS. DP feels he will have nothing to do with his half sibling after this. She can’t help having been born to the woman, but he can never have a relationship with her knowing that she doesn’t believe any of the things that happened to him.

The father disappeared to God knows where, but apparently it transpired that he’d had two children adopted before he and DP’s mother got together.

I don’t actually see why lowlife like that should be entitled to the human right of not being sterilised. We can’t prevent people from having more children to abuse but we can prevent all of those children from having a normal childhood? Why?

If you're going to apply for adoption you'll need to deal with worse than this.

I’ve heard other people going on about adopted children having issues, even if they are still babies, like this should be a reason to avoid adopting a child needing a home.

Children who are put up for adoption by the state are usually put there for a very good reason. What dose your SIL want, to see these poor children past for pillow to post not knowing where they are going to end up and never have a stable home environment, not to mention the risks of neglect and abuse, physically, mentally.... If there is a chance these children can get a stable and loving home through adoption they should be given it.

Not loving a non-bio child is a personal thing, some people are capable of it, some aren’t.

I’ve known a few people who have been adopted. A friend of mine, a lovely lady who had the most amazing childhood, her birth parents were just kids, mum white, dad not, mums parents forced the adoption. My friend made contact more out of curiosity about her race, background and ended up with a nice relationship with her birth father who didn’t know about her but would have tried to keep her, but the reality was he probably wouldn’t have been able to cope even if he had. She had a far better life than being with him or his family.

When I was young, there was also a little boy our neighbours adopted, they had been trying for years, as soon as the adoption went through they fell pregnant. I always felt so sorry for the adopted boy as he was treat very differently from their biological child, it was almost cruel, it would probably have been better for them to find another family who wanted him. I suppose that’s where your MIL could be proven right on the loving the biological child more.

I've never seen or heard anyone suggesting that adoption is worse than being left in abusive situations or in foster care. That's a shocking statement. Children are only adopted when their biological parents have already been given many, many chances to improve their care of the children.

I have heard people say you can't love an adopted child as much as a biological child. I don't believe it myself, I think I could love any child who came to live with me.

I do know that adopted children often need a much greater level of support than children who have never been in the care system. That doesn't mean that their adoptive parents don't love them, but it does mean that there are extra problems to overcome. Trauma in the early years can affect children for many, many, many years, and adoptive parents need to be prepared for this.

I’m not against adoption but it’s not something I would ever want to do.

@EmeraldShamrock

No parent... NO parent... has a child removed simply because they had one breakdown. The system would be in gridlock if that were the case I'll leave you with this. I've no skin in this discussion. It is uncomfortable watching if you want to skip directly to 17.30 minutes onwards there is a mc speaker too for balance. It is from 2016. There are plenty of other recent investigations. m.youtube.com/watch?v=va1N9r2Vieg&t=1027s

No parent... NO parent... has a child removed simply because they ha

The same MP, according to Wikipedia (about as credible source as that video) has apparently faked death threats against herself, left voicemails for sick employees threatening them with dismissal, retweeted doctored videos emanating from the far right, and had a pop at trainee doctors, according them of ‘holding people to ransom’...

Not sure she’s particularly credible to be honest.

I know a couple who have adopted and they've had a couple of comments.

1. What if the biological parents want the child back and they qualify to do so?

There's obviously the concern here that the parents will be able to just pluck the child away from the adopted parents one day.

2. The child could be a problem child because of their background. Or the adoptive parents aren't told all the details about the child's previous life, which becomes a problem.

This one seems to be concern of the unknown and the automatic assumption that any adopted child is likely to be a troubled child.

I’ve heard other people going on about adopted children having issues, even if they are still babies, like this should be a reason to avoid adopting a child needing a home.

I've only heard this in the context of people needing to know what the commitment is likely to be if they are thinking of adopting or as a reason why they wouldn't personally adopt rather than an argument against adoption as a process.

Here in Australia children generally stay in foster care of some kind rather than get adopted. Sadly this means that many children are bumped from foster home to foster home and never have their own family. It’s terribly sad and not surprisingly many of these dislocated children go on to have substance abuse issues and start criminal behaviour at a young age.

Of course there are some lucky ones that find a long term foster home but foster parents don’t have the same legal rights as adoptive parents so it’s never really the same.

@Frankola

I know a couple who have adopted and they've had a couple of comments.

1. What if the biological parents want the child back and they qualify to do so?

There's obviously the concern here that the parents will be able to just pluck the child away from the adopted parents one day.

2. The child could be a problem child because of their background. Or the adoptive parents aren't told all the details about the child's previous life, which becomes a problem.

This one seems to be concern of the unknown and the automatic assumption that any adopted child is likely to be a troubled child.

You have friends who’ve already adopted, who’ve asked those questions?

@RHOBHfan I'm reading that post as the adoptive parents having comments made to them, not that the adoptive parents are doing the asking.

Although the baby was no risk of iminent harm, people do not have babies removed because the social worker feels like it. There is probably a very long history to this case and the male in the situation had children removed and adopted previously. Women or men who make poor choices in partner repeatedly place their child at risk, my son was exposed to domestic violence pre birth and still lives with the affects if this fact to this day.
People should be able to parent largely on their own seeking help as needed the state cannot support parents and scaffold their parenting indefinitely. Meanwhile a child is suffering from less than appropriate parenting. Its not easy, it is hard but children deserve the best.

I agree, I've heard some bizarre things. I do think it's odd that infertile couples would rather spend thousands on IVF than adopt

[quote TurquoiseDragon]**@RHOBHfan I'm reading that post as the adoptive parents having comments made to them, not that the adoptive parents are doing the asking.[/quote]
Ah yes... that makes sense!

@AlternativePerspective

I get where you're coming from. But I don't agree with you about no second chances. My DDs' birth parents have had four children taken off them. But I don't think that should rule them out from being able to raise a child, if they can get their lives together.

I sadly don't hold out all that much hope, but if they could sort their lives out, either together or in another relationship, then they shouldn't have their past held against them. Not just for their own sakes, but for any future children. Adoption can work out (and I hope it does ultimately for our DDs, we're doing our best for them), but it isn't the best solution for a child, there's no point pretending otherwise.

I adopted and have heard some of the things you say.

I have a birth son and an adopted daughter and I love them exactly the same now (4 years on) but for the first 12/18months I loved my daughter in a similar way to how you would love a partner. If you has asked me I may have been honest with you and given the impression that your mother holds.

Alot of people say kids should stay with birth parents or that they should get more support. This is purely because they don't know know the system and how many chances birth families get.
SS do alot to keep children at home. They offer loads of support and only remove children in danger or those being neglected who after several chances are not improving. Then, they have 6-12 months depending on the age of their child to make improvements whilst the courts decide the future of those children.
They can contest adoptions right up until the point where they grant the adoption order (and up to 21 days after) which is very stressful for the adoptive parents, and these are often parents who have abused their children and yet they are given so many chances despite it not always being in the childs best interests.
They won't fully understand until they have first hand experience. As with everything, education is key.

@Frankola

I know a couple who have adopted and they've had a couple of comments.

1. What if the biological parents want the child back and they qualify to do so?

There's obviously the concern here that the parents will be able to just pluck the child away from the adopted parents one day.

2. The child could be a problem child because of their background. Or the adoptive parents aren't told all the details about the child's previous life, which becomes a problem.

This one seems to be concern of the unknown and the automatic assumption that any adopted child is likely to be a troubled child.

I don't believe anyone who's adopted would ask these questions. You cannot "qualify" to take back an adopted child.

I am much more in favour of a guardianship order whereby a family member or 'adoptive' mother can look after the child legally but receive the financial and respite benefits of foster carers. It would be a much more stable upbringing and give the 'adoptive' people respite aswell

I’m an adoptive mum, I have two children one with additional support needs. I don’t need respite from my children any more than any other mum, my children have a good extended family who have them for sleepovers etc. The idea that adoptive parents need respite from their kids (without the idea that bio parents also need respite for their kids) maintains that idea that my kids aren’t really mine.

Yes some adopted children need additional support or have significant challenges but so do some birth children. You wouldn’t routinely suggest that a parent of a child with disabilities should put their children into local authority care for respite, nor should adoptive parents unless the circumstances would merit it for birth parents in the same circumstances.

My reasons for being cautious of adoption are very much geared towards the actual adopters.

No amount of training/warning can prepare them for what could potentially land at their doorstep.

I don't have the answer, but given the nature of my work, I do know, as other PPs have said, the damage to a child from neglect/in utero drug misuse/foetal alcohol syndrome is often irreparable. An understanding, from a psychological perspective, of brain development would cause many to run a mile.

Many adopters are either naive, desperate or just accept their life will never be the same again. Christ it's not the same with a birth child, but goodness me it can be another level with an adopted child.

I don't know of any recent British babies being relinquished for adoption.

@Girlyracer

My reasons for being cautious of adoption are very much geared towards the actual adopters.

No amount of training/warning can prepare them for what could potentially land at their doorstep.

I don't have the answer, but given the nature of my work, I do know, as other PPs have said, the damage to a child from neglect/in utero drug misuse/foetal alcohol syndrome is often irreparable. An understanding, from a psychological perspective, of brain development would cause many to run a mile.

Many adopters are either naive, desperate or just accept their life will never be the same again. Christ it's not the same with a birth child, but goodness me it can be another level with an adopted child.

I don't know of any recent British babies being relinquished for adoption.

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you've said, I think you're completely ignoring the consequences of pregnancy and childbirth. I have a biological son and chose to adopt because pregnancy was horrific. Although I'm completely fertile, I almost died due to hyperemesis and many other issues. I'm not desperate or naive - I'm just not naive to the realities of any way of having a child.

I'm speaking at a time when our DD1 (now 11) is having a lot of issues, including Attachment Disorder. We have a strong bond with her, but there's no point in pretending that her issues are not at least partly down to her start in life. Adoption can work well for children, but the separation from their birth family does have an impact, and it doesn't help to pretend otherwise.

My parents weren't very loving and tbh I'd much rather have grown up in another family that was more caring. And as for putting the birth parents before the children's welfare, just no!

Obviously if parents are just struggling and need support, they should receive it and ideally it's better to keep families together provided there's enough basic loving and caring by those parents. But neglect and abuse are unacceptable and it's much better to be in a loving, caring family as an adopted child. Adoptive parents who provide this are amazing and deserve support and admiration, not vilification.