to not understand why so many people are against adoption?

[Confusedamonium]

Before deciding to adopt, I'd never really been aware of this but it appears that a huge chunk of society are really, really against adoption - and I just don't understand why.

• SIL thinks children should be in foster care in case their parents change their minds or change their behaviour. She thinks permanently removing a child (no matter how much support has been offered or how long/severe the problems are) is unfair on the biological parents.
• DM thinks that no one can love an adopted child as much as a biological child - despite what we tell her.

People make comments about how cruel it is that children are taken from their parents (to both the children and the parents). Can anyone actually explain why they think it's better that children either float around foster placements or remain in abusive homes? What really shocks me is that foster carers are perceived as saintly carers for innocent souls and adopters are perceived as evil child snatchers. My parents foster and get no end of praise for it but one mention of adoption and people turn frosty.

But the challenges of adoption should not be under estimated.

It is a fact that a very large number of adoptions of over 5’s break down for instance. I can’t remember the exact figure, but I believe it was somewhere in the range of 40%. No parent should go into the adoption process blindly.

And you are naive if you think that adoptive parents don’t have the option to give their child back. Parents can and do relinquish adopted children back into the care system....

Actually my eXH worked with a woman who did just that because the child didn’t bond with her biological child....

No amount of training/warning can prepare them for what could potentially land at their doorstep.

The same is true of biological parents who have children with difficulties, only they are even less likely to get a heads up or to have had training / warning as you describe it, before their baby arrives.

Many people adopt because they either can't have their own children or as the OP says their pregnancy was awful.

Biology doesn't go away, human beings will yearn to have children. That's a good job otherwise we'd go extinct.

However, that yearning can cloud what could be the realities of adopting a child who was affected either in utero or as a result of various types of neglect.

Highly unpleasant, but the impact of neglect on the human brain is unbelievable and fascinating. I would encourage anyone adopting to seek out and research the psychological impact of neglect. The Local Authorities training doesn't go far enough.

Local Authorities are better than they were, but they still aren't as brazen as they should be about background health/neglect of the family where they are seeking to place a child for adoption.

As a PP has said, sometimes the impact of neglect doesn't show for years. Watch out for the teenage years!

Yes as another PP said, many adopters children go back into the care system.

Late to the party but, I foster. I love my foster children every bit as much as I love my own, if I didn't I wouldn't be fostering right. It saddens me when people allude to it not being possible to love a child as much as you love a biological child.

I've never come across that attitude. Could you be getting it out of proportion because obviously your family are close?

Never heard of anyone being negative towards adopting / adoptive parents.
I know several people who have adopted, including family.
The only not so positive situation that was talked about was when a family member in a same sex relationship adopted from abroad, the couple were almost 50yo when baby arrived (she is now 16!) and the general consensus I heard was that they are/were 'too old'. Not specifically re:adoption.

They actually made fantastic and very loving parents - I enjoy spending time with them and their v v loved DD.

@bloodywhitecat

I feel the same way as you. I can't imagine loving my DDs more if I'd given birth to them. But that doesn't mean that they haven't missed out by having been taken away from their bio parents. It isn't just about how much we do or don't love them, it's about the loss they have already suffered.

I see the consequences every day, and it's heartbreaking.

@AlternativePerspective

But the challenges of adoption should not be under estimated.

It is a fact that a very large number of adoptions of over 5’s break down for instance. I can’t remember the exact figure, but I believe it was somewhere in the range of 40%. No parent should go into the adoption process blindly.

And you are naive if you think that adoptive parents don’t have the option to give their child back. Parents can and do relinquish adopted children back into the care system....

Actually my eXH worked with a woman who did just that because the child didn’t bond with her biological child....

I didn't say adoptive parents don't have the option to give their child back. I said birth parents don't have the right to demand their child back.

Not read beyond page 1 but I think that whenever you have any kind of major life event there will be a lot of people who don't know much about it who will voice their opinion. When my son was diagnosed with a problem at my 20 week scan so many people thought they knew better than the Drs about how his condition should be treated.

*No amount of training/warning can prepare them for what could potentially land at their doorstep.

I don't have the answer, but given the nature of my work, I do know, as other PPs have said, the damage to a child from neglect/in utero drug misuse/foetal alcohol syndrome is often irreparable. An understanding, from a psychological perspective, of brain development would cause many to run a mile.*

I disagree. I’ve been a child protection social worker for 25 years, and have a Masters in Trauma Studies. I know very well the impact of poor pregnancy, substance misuse, neglect and trauma in children and happily chose to adopt. My children were older in terms of adoption too and had spent too long with their birth families and with foster carers. I went into it with my eyes wide open. I certainly didn’t want to run a mile.

My kids are great, they have their challenges but nothing we can’t cope with and both are thriving with the security, love and belonging they get from being adopted.

Yes, training could be better but there’s lots of easily accessible reading about trauma in childhood which adopters are encouraged to read and research. If anything, more openness and support around those early weeks and months of placement would be useful to help adopters realise the level of adjustment that comes with parenting from a standing start but no, many people go into it with their eyes open to what potentially may land at their door. And thank god really because children deserve to have secure loving families, however those families are created.

I was temporarily removed into care. Quite frankly not enough children are removed from their parents!
Generally foster/ adoptive parents are trying to do a great thing by se of societies most vulnerable. I must admit to a slight niggle/ irrational thought that some foster parents might be in it for the money BUT I also totally realise you'd be hard pushed to make money out of a foster placement in a logical part of the brain.

I've never heard people say things like that. My DM was adopted as a baby. She never bonded with her adoptive Mother & was very bitter about it & took it out on me. I also know someone who adopted a 4yr old. The damage of the abuse they'd undergone didn't seem to be turned around, despite every effort . They're now 16 & there's a laundry list of emotional & MH isues still: & again rhey & the adoptive mother never bonded. My BF at school was adopted. Again, no mother/daughter bond & a lot of resentment.

I think there are casses where parents aren,t given the right support and children are taken when perhaps they don,t need to be. Or they could go to other family members when they not. Also Adoptions don,t always work, the process is hard. I wouldn,t say I am against at all, but It,s definately not plain sailing.

Might be worth listening to the BBC podcast "The Adoption".

I’m always interested to read these threads because in Australia we have a completely different culture around adoption and fostering. We have a shocking, long term history of forced removal of Aboriginal and Indigenous children for racist reasons and this is an ongoing issue despite government rhetoric - far too many Aboriginal children are still placed in foster care and too often outside kinship care. We also had systemic forced removal from unmarried mothers up to the late 70s.

We now have only tiny numbers of adoptions and these are usually kinship adoptions, but much larger numbers in long term foster care. On the other hand, foster carers receive ongoing government support which is often not available to adoptive parents.

Intercountry adoptions were also a big thing here with zero cultural support for adoptees.

Personally I’m glad that the culture has moved away from adoptions but we need to do much, much more to support mothers before a child is ever endangered.

I haven’t heard these views at all, fostering and adopting is an amazing thing to do, and although I’m sad for the people who have had a bad experience of you knew how hard it was to remove children from their biological homes you would understand it’s generally done where there is a need to protect life. That’s the level of risk it has to get to.

@Gremlinsateit

I’m always interested to read these threads because in Australia we have a completely different culture around adoption and fostering. We have a shocking, long term history of forced removal of Aboriginal and Indigenous children for racist reasons and this is an ongoing issue despite government rhetoric - far too many Aboriginal children are still placed in foster care and too often outside kinship care. We also had systemic forced removal from unmarried mothers up to the late 70s.

We now have only tiny numbers of adoptions and these are usually kinship adoptions, but much larger numbers in long term foster care. On the other hand, foster carers receive ongoing government support which is often not available to adoptive parents.

Intercountry adoptions were also a big thing here with zero cultural support for adoptees.

Personally I’m glad that the culture has moved away from adoptions but we need to do much, much more to support mothers before a child is ever endangered.

What does the research say about the outcome of long term fostering?

On a personal level (as an adopter and someone who has worked with traumatised adults for years) I would be concerned that the lack of permanency for kids could be really damaging. I don't have any evidence for that, just personal experience and I know that hugely colours my view.

I can't imagine my sons not being a permanent part of the family or the fear that they might have about being sent back. I also would worry about the impact on their birth mum who doesn't have the mental capacity to understand nuances so needs very concrete messages and consistency.

Because of the disgusting way in which interracial adoption was handled here, the long term effects of those adoptions were appalling. The best possible option here for removed Aboriginal children is kinship fostering. They can retain their ties to family, community and culture. (The question of whether so many Aboriginal children should be removed in the first place is a whole other problem.) To a lesser extent, but similarly, the forced adoption of the babies of unmarried and poor mothers had a tragic effect. So, the question of the long term effects of fostering here is really approached from a completely different angle.

Some close friends of mine adopted two young siblings three years ago. The first thing I’d say is it’s bloody hard. Extremely hard. The second is there is no doubt in my mind they love their children as much as I love my baby DD. It’s clear to see.

@Gremlinsateit

Because of the disgusting way in which interracial adoption was handled here, the long term effects of those adoptions were appalling. The best possible option here for removed Aboriginal children is kinship fostering. They can retain their ties to family, community and culture. (The question of whether so many Aboriginal children should be removed in the first place is a whole other problem.) To a lesser extent, but similarly, the forced adoption of the babies of unmarried and poor mothers had a tragic effect. So, the question of the long term effects of fostering here is really approached from a completely different angle.

That makes sense, i don't know a lot about it but what I do know is horrific.

I don't think people think like this at all. I think you have close family that simply do not know a thing about adoption. They have formed half cooked myths about a subject they've never really had to think about much and have no experience of.

Re adopters 'giving back' children.

They really, really don't.

Sadly some placements disrupt. It causes a lot of heartache for all involved, it is not something done lightly.

There aren't good measures on this, but remember disruption can occur at various stages so you need to be clear what time span you are talking about:

• during initial introductions
• after placement but before the final court order
• after the legal adoption has taken place
• after the child is an adult

Often the needs of the child do not become fully clear until later down the line. Some people who cope with behaviour in a younger child find the needs become too great once the child hits adolescence.

Some adopters very reluctantly agree for their teenage child to go into the care system as the child either cannot manage in a family setting or needs a level of therapeutic input not possible elsewhere.

Sometimes the child is presented very differently from how they later turn out

• sometimes SW don't know the whole story
• sometimes (rarely I would hope) SWs suppress information
• sometimes a child presents differently in foster care to a 'forever' placement
• some difficulties only become clear as the child grows older
• lack of post adoption support when asked for can mean issues aren't addressed timely enough

Home studies are thorough for a reason which is why it is important prospective adopters engage fully and don't just view it as 'jumping through hoops'.

But sadly none of us really know what we can cope with until we are faced with a situation.

I am concerned that some posters are saying things like "I have even seen fostering suggested on here as a career".

Of course it is a career. Its bloody hard work to train as a foster carer and they are not allowed to work FT in other careers.
Are you suggesting they do it for free?

I think SS do a very good job of weeding out the ones who would be doing it only for the money though.
I've met a lot of foster carers in my time and they have all been amazing people.

Adoption is an entirely different kettle of fish a d I think it is a shame that their is no continuing financial help for adopters.

I don't recognise what you say, op.

My mum was very wary when dsis said she wanted to adopt. Said she'd heard about a lot of adopted kids who turn out to be 'bad apples' (i.e criminals etc) due to their background and 'you never know what you're getting', particularly with an older child, whose personality has already been determined by their experiences so far. I think her reservations were more about adopting older children and the potential impact on adoptive parents I think.

Dsis went ahead with the adoption of two boys. It's definitely been hard and had an impact on dsis and bil's relationship. My parents have only ever treated my nephews as completely equal in every way to their other biological grandchildren. They're lovely boys, but they have not been left completely unharmed by the neglect they suffered early on. So in that respect I can see where my mum was coming from. It's been a struggle for dsis and her marriage may well have fallen apart as a result.