If you WFH what time should you start work?

[EatPrayYoga]

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

I've never worked a job outside retail that required you start bang on, but when I worked in a shop you were expected to be on the shop floor working at 9am, you didn't arrive at work at 9am and then go down to your locker.

These days me and DH work in really flexible industries it's more about output that hours. If i finish my work by 11am I can stop working.

I'd just send a generic reminder about company policy. If he keeps being late and generally rubbish you'll need to schedule a 1:1 to discuss with him.

And you all need to get macs, 5 mins for your computer to start is crazy! 🤣

Out of interest OP, it sounds like the other person is online BEFORE 9 and is getting the work from you, is that right? Because surely you wouldn’t really notice much difference in availability between 9 and 9.05? If that’s the case then 9.05 man probably needs a little heads up that those who are getting all the work are starting before the official start time. If he was working in an office that would be obvious to him because he’d see them already hard at work when he arrived. In a WFH environment he may not have realised.

One of my colleagues has been logging on consistently late since the start of us WFH.
Not 5 minutes either. It's always at least 15/20 minutes late if not later!
He logs off a couple minutes early too.

This has destroyed our team morale as our manager has done absolutely nothing to stop this behaviour. And has even laughed about it on team calls etc

If all the rest of the team are logging on, on time, I think you should talk to the person that is always late. It's not fair on everyone else.

@doadeer

And you all need to get macs, 5 mins for your computer to start is crazy! 🤣

Not when you have to ideal in in complicated VPNs with more passwords and security than Fort Knox.

I work on a company laptop as that means I can set up a second screen. If ai would work on my Mac and dial in I only can work on one screen and that was absolute rubbish even for the odd day, never mind 7 months and ongoing.

I wouldnt be impressed either OP..

But the thing is, he's already being "punished" because basically what happens to people like this is they progress more slowly, miss more good work opportunities etc. Then when they ask why, its communicated that other people in the team simply do more and are more committed and make a good impression. Either he will learn or he just wont do well.

@reluctantbrit You can set up additional screen on a mac just for future reference :-)

@EatPrayYoga after reading all your updates, I would talk to him about this.

Not in a performance management/telling him off way but sharing genuinely useful information.

It sounds as if he's quite new to the field and he might not realise the impression he's making. In an office it might be more obvious what time everyone arrives and leaves so he'd realise more quickly he's out of step.

There's a lot of research that shows that some people pick up this sort of company culture more readily and get a hidden 'head start'

As you have monthly meetings, I'd bring it up by asking what his future plans are and if he'd like to progress, mention that you've noticed he's the last one to log on every morning. Whilst it's only 5 minutes and it seems trivial, you know in the past senior people have taken this into account.

What he chooses to do with the info is up to him!

In my Office it is flexi time and I had a line manager who was a complete nightmare. She sat and watched everything that I did. I could see that when I came in, in the morning she would look up at the clock and see what time it was and monitor how long I took for breaks and lunch and at what time I went home at. I felt constantly monitored and on edge. It seemed to be one rule for me and another for her as she was fond of long lunchbreaks and long phone calls on the Office phone with various family members.

I now work for a man who is much more easy going. As long as the work is done which it always is, he doesn't bother about weather you start a bit later or leave a bit earlier and I am much happier. We have the green dot too so you can see who is there and who is not. If my line manager was quibbling over 5 minutes I would think it was very petty.

@ToDoListAddict

One of my colleagues has been logging on consistently late since the start of us WFH. Not 5 minutes either. It's always at least 15/20 minutes late if not later! He logs off a couple minutes early too.

This has destroyed our team morale as our manager has done absolutely nothing to stop this behaviour. And has even laughed about it on team calls etc

If all the rest of the team are logging on, on time, I think you should talk to the person that is always late. It's not fair on everyone else.

Perhaps your team might want to think about why the manager isn’t bothered. Maybe your colleague powers through work to a high standard and performs entirely satisfactorily. It sounds as if the team’s managed in an adult way, I’d appreciate it if it were me.

Wherever I work you are expected to be ready to start work at 9am, coffee made, computer on etc. I start work at 8am but turn my computer on at about 7.30am and then come back to it at 7.45am to do the second set of the start up so I'm ready to rock and roll at 8am. I often finish bang on 4pm but if the need is there I stay late. I refuse to take the p*ss.

If all the rest of the team are logging on, on time, I think you should talk to the person that is always late. It's not fair on everyone else.

Yes exactly

Out of interest OP, it sounds like the other person is online BEFORE 9 and is getting the work from you, is that right? Because surely you wouldn’t really notice much difference in availability between 9 and 9.05? If that’s the case then 9.05 man probably needs a little heads up that those who are getting all the work are starting before the official start time

I have mentioned it and also I sometimes send instructions to both of them even if it is 8 am and only one of them is online as it is only fair to both of them but often the one who is online replies and does it straight away so the one who is not online knows this has happened but I don't think he is that bothered.

He doesn't have a bad attitude at all but maybe a lack of ambition, in some ways, and yet talks to me about applying for promotion. I don't think he realises he is not doing enough. I have mentioned things he needs to work on but I don't think he gets it. I think he probably does think he has started work at 9 if he is at his desk at nine but in this kind of competitive environment he is not going to get where he wants to be by being half assed with everything.

He has been with us for 3 years now and there have been improvements in some things but progress is slow.

Honestly he is mostly fine for the role he is in now apart from needing to take a bit more care and working to deadlines better but if he wants to progress he is going to struggle as there are lots of people willing to work hard to get to the place they want to be.

If other members of the team are online at 8am and are happy to work outside of their required hours then it all balances out in terms of your team I'd be more concerned about your team members who are often working over their standard hours as they are obviously struggling with their role if they can't manage their time effectively with a normal working day.

[quote TheGoWorm]@reluctantbrit You can set up additional screen on a mac just for future reference :-)[/quote]
In general yes, DH has such a set up. But not when I dial in via the company’s VPN. And for security reasons we cannot change any vital settings on the system on our own or override anything

As the whole equipment has been provided by the company, no questions asked about existing hardware, I think getting started and making a cup of tea while waiting for the system to boot is not a hardship.

I am actually tempered to change from 9-5 to 8-4 as I am up early anyway to wave DD good bye at 7.30am.

This thread has made me so glad I work for an organisation that doesn’t clock watch and where I’m treated like an adult who can manage my own time.

I think pick your battles. If there are other issues then I would include that more of a side note when you address those.

Interesting that you say “yes, exactly” to this comment:

If all the rest of the team are logging on, on time, I think you should talk to the person that is always late. It's not fair on everyone else.

I’d argue that keen early starting woman is reaping the benefits of 9.05 man’s laziness because she can always pick up the work first and get the credit for doing so. Well done her.

I find it completely unsurprising that the keen, conscientious one is female and that the lazy one who thinks they deserve to be promoted is male. Typical male/female workplace behaviour. I bet the woman is also lacking in confidence and would not put herself forward for promotion.

An attitude of "I am not working beyond my contractual hours" does not work in this profession and to start our with that attitude when you are not even qualified yet and don't have any children etc requiring you to be elsewhere is not a good start.

OP, you're not coming across well here. Not only do you seem to be of the view that staff somehow 'owe' the company unpaid time every morning in order to be logged on by 9 (it may only be a few minutes but it's still unpaid time), you're also discriminating between those with kids and those without. Just because someone is childless doesn't mean they might not have other caring responsibilities e.g. their own parents. Even if not, it's not OK to set different standards for childed and non-childed employees.

I've read the rest of your posts but they don't alter my view. I agree if his work is substandard, this is obviously an issue that needs picking up on. As far as the logging-on time goes, though, I think you're being really unreasonable and potentially discriminatory.

It makes my blood boil when companies deny advancement to employees who aren't willing to clock up unpaid time. Says a lot about the organisation imo.

I feel like I am shouting into a void here. It’s not unpaid time!

I’m a bit astonished that 5 minutes late in logging on, at the moment, would give anyone any cause to have a word. In the absence of any problem with him getting his work done etc I wouldn’t dream of speaking to him about it. Given the mental health crisis currently due to general chaos were going through I don’t think it would be appropriate at all to chastise someone working from home for this.

@CheetasOnFajitas

I feel like I am shouting into a void here. It’s not unpaid time!

Of course it is. Otherwise why have contracted hours? Either you specify the number of hours to be worked or you don’t, if you do specify them anything over that number is unpaid.

@VinylDetective I explained how the contracts work earlier in the thread. You’re not right on this one I’m afraid.

[quote CheetasOnFajitas]@VinylDetective I explained how the contracts work earlier in the thread. You’re not right on this one I’m afraid.[/quote]
You said most contracts of employment include a clause that negates contracted hours. In which case, why bother including them in the contract? No contract I’ve ever signed has included such a clause.

I hope he opens his eyes and realises he should go find a company that isn't stuck with such old skool cultures. I would never work for a company that managed by presenteeism where bums on seat at exactly 9am is considered important. So long as a person is available during core hours and the work is completed to the required standard that is what is id value more.

I voted YABU before reading all your updates. In the context of everything, YA probably NBU. It is not just a start time but the whole picture that counts - is the person getting their work finished in good time, do they go the extra mile when it counts.
I am sometimes late to log in despite WFH, but I often work an hour or more late in the evening. I think my boss is probably sneaky enough to notice the lateness, but there are definitely people shirking in general and I am not one of them. This guy sounds like he needs to be told if he wants to progress, to improve his attitude.