If you WFH what time should you start work?

[EatPrayYoga]

If official hours are 9-5, is it a problem if you are not logged on by 9 every day?

I'm a team manager and one person on the team consistently logs on after 9 am. I know because our system shows a green or other colour next to everyone's names in an email so if I email the team I can see who is online and who isn't.

I usually send an email in a morning to confirm any things to be aware of for that day including who is not working that day and who is covering their work.

He usually logs on at about 9.05 but I'm not sure whether to mention this as he is only slightly late. He is in a junior role but wants to progress. There are other people in the same role who start work earlier than 9 to get things done so he stands out as doing less though I can't say who does more or less work in a day as their work is delegated by different members of the team.

I also realise we are in difficult times. He lives with parents and has no children or pets but I believe there are other adult siblings do not sure how easy or difficult the WFH circumstances are.

IABU to be unimpressed?

Haven't gone through the entire thread (given we are in working hours!), but is an annual review or suchlike due by the end of the year? That may be an appropriate time to raise the 'late arrival' issue as well as broader perceptions regarding a lack of effort to do above the minimum (if he even reaches that). Framing it as 'supportive advice' (i.e. what they need to do to get where he claims he wants to within the company) should be easy enough.

If he lives with his parents then maybe consider that adjustments need to be made. Does he have access to a dedicated workspace that is his alone? Perhaps the only place he can work from is the dining table so he has to wait for everyone else to finish breakfast before he can start? Or a bedroom that someone else also uses.

I think if he's working to a promotion, for example when I've worked in private practice there may be 8 trainees but only 3 jobs at the end of those 2 years. All 8 of those trainees will be working towards getting a job at the end of their training contract.

Time keeping, whether you go above and beyond, quality of the work, how long it takes to do the work, personality with others in the company all count.

When I read your first post I thought Well she doesn't know how much work he's getting done, but no matter if the work he is providing is late and substandard.

I think you need to ask him how he thinks his progress is and what he needs to do to improve if there are areas he thinks he needs to improve in. I'm not sure how you mention timekeeping when he's working from home, but I'm in a new job and was late for ameeting that they put in on one night at 6.30p.m. for 8.45a.m. the next morning. I logged on at 8.45, by the time I caught up and logged into the meeting I was 5 minutes late for the meeting. I was mortified. No matter how late I get back from a run or from a bike ride I log in between 8.20 and 8.35, no-one's doing that to me again.

@Gwenhwyfar

5 minutes late? Seriously, what a pedantic, petty manager you are! I'm glad I don't work for you.

Don’t complain when the supermarket doesn’t open until 5 minutes after it’s advertised then.Or when the gym opens its doors late or your childs tutor is 5 minutes late every week. I don’t think going home early if the job‘ s actually finished matters, but being ready to start on time is important.

"being ready to start on time is important."

This is entirely dependent on the job. One client I'm currently working for is based in Canada. If I start at 9 or 9.15 it makes zero difference to them given they will all be fast asleep at that point.

Managers who are petty about start times when it makes zero difference to productivity are nothing more than tedious micro-managers.

...this is a profession and we are salaried and therefore we all work beyond our normal hours sometimes.

You see - I don't agree with this. Not one little bit. It's people working beyond what they are paid for - creating this sort of bizarre culture. Until you end up with competitive knobs working until 10 at night to 'look good' .. then everyone else feels they need to do the same.

I am salaried. I work in a profession. However my business does not get my labour for free. I work 36 hours a week. If 37 are required (sometimes 50) they PAY me for it. I don't work for free for anyone.

My DD1 works for a U.S company in UK. They also have a similar policy .. a sort of 'enforced work life balance' where working above contracted hours is frowned on (but they are very right-on and quite trendy) ..

It must be a pretty cushy workplace if senior management have time to sit on their hands and look at whether everyone is online and working at 9am on the dot.

Some managers start work early and when they want something they see if you are online yet or not to message, call etc.

It's people working beyond what they are paid for

But most of these employers are clear at the recruitment stage that the salary is paid in return for working beyond core hours. So people are not working beyond what they are paid for. Nobody really thinks of these jobs in terms of hourly rates.

I think if he's working to a promotion, for example when I've worked in private practice there may be 8 trainees but only 3 jobs at the end of those 2 years. All 8 of those trainees will be working towards getting a job at the end of their training contract.

It's exactly this type of situation except a bit earlier in that he is one of 5+ people wanting one TC space.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all as technically his contractual hours start at 9. However I would have a quiet word with him about being online promptly at 9 in future, and possibly give him the benefit of the doubt as maybe he does log on at nine but it takes time for the system to register as others have said. Alas, punctuality appears to be a dying virtue I fear.

I have worked for over 25 years as a solicitor and feel really sorry for anyone junior in the profession. It wasn't easy when I qualified but there wasn't all the paralegal nonsense that you get these days. A training contract wasn't a carrot dangled to get highly qualified people to work for pennies year after year in those days but is now. There is one training space but your company wants 5 people to bow and scrape and work over the hours they are getting paid for to have a shot at it. Probably because they are too tight to fund more, the poor lad is probably totally disillusioned already

@Bouncycastle12

I think 9.05 could just be the time it takes for his computer to warm up!

Then he needs to boot up earlier..He is taking the piss

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all as technically his contractual hours start at 9

Does he down tools at 5 on the dot? Take his breaks/lunches to the full?

I find that a lot of employers see ‘contractual hours’ as a one way street.

In my experience, the managers who are petty about start times are the same ones who give nothing back when employees work through lunch and stay late after work to get things finished.

Our laptops can be a nightmare and I've had mornings where it's taken 15 mins to log on. I've therefore started switching my laptop on at 7.45 so I can start at 8am.

We're on Skype for Business so it's obvious who's working (green), who's around (yellow) and who hasn't logged on yet. It's great to have this when you're sending emails and want to check who might get back to you quickly but a bit rubbish as you really have to work all your set hours when WFH!

It depends the job. I've had jobs where we covered a help desk, do a 9am start meant a 9am start, which really meant getting in at 08:45-08:50. My current job - no one will care asong as I'm there by 10am. If it's prearranged, I could be in later, or take a long lunch or finish early, along as I do at least 50h a week. We also have to do out-of-hours work and on-call (by rota), so having some flexibility is part of that.

However, we are expected to be at meetings on time. So if you have a 9am call, then you should be there for the start of it. I have little tolerance for people who don't turn up to meetings on time because they just popped to the loo or to get a coffee or because they forgot.

The overall performance also needs managing, but I don't think starting 5 minutes after 9am is really going to make a difference. If he was turning up to meetings on time doing his hours and producing the work, I doubt people would notice or care.

How is work productivity measured? Via targets or time with the green light on? As I assume surfing the net/online shopping/chatting over teams will also give the green light.

@EatPrayYoga

I think if he's working to a promotion, for example when I've worked in private practice there may be 8 trainees but only 3 jobs at the end of those 2 years. All 8 of those trainees will be working towards getting a job at the end of their training contract.

It's exactly this type of situation except a bit earlier in that he is one of 5+ people wanting one TC space.

Then just a word explaining what it takes to get to where he wants it. When he has made it he can change the rules, but he can't try to change the rules at his level. PP made a good point about lunch though. I barely make time for lunch Monday-Thursday but Friday lunchtime I like to run errands.

Was interrupted there

So if he works through lunch and has made up his time, it's not really worth mentioning, imo.

@Passthecake30

How is work productivity measured? Via targets or time with the green light on? As I assume surfing the net/online shopping/chatting over teams will also give the green light.

I've worked where they can check your online shopping/surfing the net and IMs

I prefer to have everything 'good to go' by the start of my hours. I did work for a manager who insisted that everyone was late unless they were sat down, with any drink, computer already logged in at the start of hours.

HR did not agree.

Honestly, you sound like a nightmare to work for. Good luck to the kid. I can't say it's even crossed my mind what time my team log on. Do they get the work done? Are they coping OK? Do they have what they need? No, a lot of them are working in their parent's houses, some without any dedicated space because 3 other family members are also home working.

As if working from home isn't challenging enough without their 'supervisor' getting upset over why they're 300 seconds 'late'. Have some empathy.

OP these are fairly standard issues that it's your job to manage, including the timekeeping if it's a problem in the company you work for. Are you actually his line manager? Do you carry out one-to-ones?

there needs to be some impressing

So logging on 5 minutes earlier would “impress you”, not the quality of his work, collaboration, willingness to go the extra mile when required, etc? Really? This is the sort of environment that made me go self employed and never look back. I WFH for my clients and they couldn’t care less when I log on or off as long as I’m getting the work done to a high standard (I usually work long hours anyway but often start late).

I had a team member once at an old job who would make a point of clocking in and then going to make breakfast and have a chat with his mates. He was always the first to claim his time in lieu and flexi, and honestly, I really thought he was back of the queue for progression. He was old school though, and thought turning up at 9 on the dot was all that was needed

I think I might have worked with his brother.

In a previous job, we had flexitime, so being late wasn't a thing. This guy used to start around 8.15-8.20 and used to take the piss out of me always being late (I started around 9.30, after walking the dog and doing a few chores).

During a very busy spell, I got in very early a few times and realised this fucker didn't do a stroke of work before 10.15. Instead, he'd faff about, making coffee and stuff and then go walkabout around the building chatting to people, only returning to his desk around 10.15, and he used to carry a file around to make look like he was on some sort of work mission. And he used to slope out during the day to take his library books back or get a haircut.

He really was one cheeky fucker.