To bin the old-fashioned racist doll? *title tweaked by MNHQ*

[MrsBonnie]

Please excuse the offensive term.

My daughter was gifted a very old doll from my husband’s great aunt. Said aunt is in her 80s now and said that the doll held special memories and she wanted DD to have it.

I don’t want to have the doll in the house, but don’t want to offend the aunt by saying we don’t want it. She does come round from time to time, so there’s a risk she’d enquire after it if she was round. WWYD?

@LizzieMacQueen

Are you not aware that Red Indian is a racial slur ?

I had one as a child - I have no idea what happened to it. Discretely binned, I suspect.

TBH, I was very perplexed as an adult to find out that it had apparently been racist because, to me, the doll was too much of a caricature for me to compare it to a black person.

I think the suggestions of eventually gifting to a museum are good. You shouldn't bin it because it makes you uncomfortable, but giving it to a museum where the curator can put it on display, explain its origins and why they aren't made anymore, would be a good way of preserving the history whilst moving forward away from history. We shouldn't attempt to erase the past, only learn from it.

I can see why people get offended, having had the link pointed out to me. However, I do wonder how many people understood what the dolls were supposed to represent. I certainly didn't (but I guess, so much goes over little children's heads).

It's racist. Obviously chuck it.

[quote Ted27]@LizzieMacQueen

Are you not aware that Red Indian is a racial slur ?[/quote]

I apologise. That's the term that we used in the 1970s when the doll was being played with.

I should have used Native American instead.

@Thehop out of context, is well made.

@OP. I'd suggest keeping the doll and using it to discuss how depictions of black people have changed, how racism isn't always overt and how some people can find it hard to understand racism when it's outside their experience- but I'd get shot down in flames, so I won't.

Thehop out of context, is well made.

I hate my phone. Please ignore the gibberish.

OP I don’t know. My inclination is to bin it but in reality I’d probably stick it in the loft.

I have a copy of a book with an extremely racist title. It’s in the loft, but even that bothers me. Throwing it away feels outrageous though.

Have a conversation with her. Explain that you understand her affection for the doll, however understanding of the harm of racial stereotypes has developed since it was made and although it was kind of her to pass it on, it is not a toy you would be happy to own or display.

Those of us who had a golly when we were children just regarded him as another soft toy along with teddy bears. I also had a black doll called Sambo, named by my mother. At that time most people were just unaware of the racist connotations associated with them.

The great aunt has been keeping it safe for 80 years, probably brought it with her through the war, marriage and many house moves. I cannot believe anyone would accept it as a gift then put it in the bin.

@DolphinsAndNemesis

Is that correct though? They were on jam jars for years so there must have been a time when they were ‘acceptable’

They were "acceptable" because outright racism was acceptable to many people. At no time in history were these vile dolls anything other than racist.

Absolutely this.

I cringe when I think what was “acceptable” when I was growing up in the 70s.

‘Love Thy Neighbour‘ and ‘Til Death Do Us Part’ anyone?

Just because things were acceptable doesn’t mean they still are.
I would tell the Aunt that it’s too old and fragile for DD and you don’t what it in case something happens to it.
People might have happy memories of their Gollywog or “Red Indian” doll but it’s not acceptable and shouldn’t be played with or displayed now.
We have an item that’s a family heirloom that a lot of people would find offensive (a couple of things in fact). I think we should keep them as they are unique and a part of history but I would never display them

I would keep it somewhere hidden away and only produce it if the aunt shows up.
This brought back hurtful childish memories for me, which I've only just (late sixties) been able to talk about openly.
I was the only mixed race child in my class at infant school, and the teacher decided to read aloud 'Little Black Sambo'
I can remember everyone looking at me and giggling. It was the only time my parents complained to the school, and from what I remember, the teacher was amazed that my parents were offended. She didn't think she'd done anything remotely wrong.

I think you should keep it, but only for 'historical' value.

It is part of history, like real fur coats etc and although should obviously never be made again, things like this DO have a place in education and museums etc, just like the tools of torture, the 'scolds bridle' , the stuffed and mounted bodies of animals and the World Wars exhibits etc

We need to learn from the mistakes of mankind, not destroy them and pretend they never happened.

Is there really a museum that takes these racist dolls in great numbers?

I wish there was! I don't think it's appropriate to destroy these dolls. They are horrible evidence of racism but it's important that evidence remains. It is really important not to brush things under the carpet, much as we all wish no one had ever behaved badly. A massive cabinet of these dolls in a museum would allow for potentially thousands of visitors to learn more about racism, to have a conversation about how to not be racist, to hear stories about how black people have felt through the years when they've come across these dolls. Humans treat each other abominably and that is never going to stop being the case. The more we try to cover up past wrongs and forget them, the fewer opportunities we have to learn from our mistakes, surely?

Imagine if every copy of Mein Kampf was wiped from the face of the earth? It's important some survive. If they were all gone it would fuel people who want to pretend the Holocaust never happened.

Sorry I'm being dumb here but why is "red indian" racist? I'm not being deliberately goady, I've genuinely never heard it and would like to know why.

Personally I'd stash it somewhere in case she asks to see it then get rid of it once she's passed away.

Years ago my ex gave me a mini golliwog doll he found at his parents house and I let my dogs have it as a toy then chucked it once they'd finished ripping it up.

I would put it away in the attic. Yes to saying it must be somewhere if ever your are asked. You aren’t lying.
But I do think it’s wrong to bin these things and wipe them from history or living memory, how else do we learn that such things are wrong? If we aren’t taught and learn to be careful, we risk repeating ourselves.

@GintyMarlow2

I would keep it somewhere hidden away and only produce it if the aunt shows up. This brought back hurtful childish memories for me, which I've only just (late sixties) been able to talk about openly. I was the only mixed race child in my class at infant school, and the teacher decided to read aloud 'Little Black Sambo' I can remember everyone looking at me and giggling. It was the only time my parents complained to the school, and from what I remember, the teacher was amazed that my parents were offended. She didn't think she'd done anything remotely wrong.

Wow I'm, so sorry, that sounds awful :(

If you're talking about the original Robertson jam dolls then yes, these should no longer be played with.

However if it's actually a doll fashioned in a dark skin then absolutely your daughter should get it.

How otherwise do we teach diversity?

@LizzieMacQueen

If you're talking about the original Robertson jam dolls then yes, these should no longer be played with.

However if it's actually a doll fashioned in a dark skin then absolutely your daughter should get it.

How otherwise do we teach diversity?

“a doll fashioned in a dark skin” is nothing like a golliwog.

As the OP clearly says it’s a golliwog, I think we can safely assume that’s what it is.

@MrsBonnie

I like the idea of keeping it hidden in the loft. But also don’t want to be racist just by having it in the house... how sad that it’s even a thing.

It's not racist to own one.

It would be racist if you were holding it up in public and comparing real people to it.

Exactly MuttsNutts

LizzieMacQueen, do you not know the difference between a dark skinned doll and a Golliwog? Or are you thinking maybe the OP doesn't?

I remember the dolls and badges/pins along with Robinson's jam in the 80s.

At primary school in the 80s we were made to do a black & white minstrels show as part of a school show. Our song was "Pick a bale of cotton .. with lyrics "up, down, turn around, pick a bale of cotton .. oh, lordy pick bale of cotton .. " etc.

Absolutely mental, thinking about it now.

I'd also send it to a museum for social history; tell granny it was so old and special a museum wanted it (!)

Bin it.