To be furious at GP....

[Dopeyduck]

Saw GP on Friday as DS was screaming inconsolably. Confirmed ear infection in both ears. As no temp no antibiotics were given. Pain relief and call back in a couple of days if no better.

Saturday DS developed a temp. By the middle of Saturday night it was 39.9 after paracetamol and ibuprofen, so I called 111 and spoke to out of hours GP.

She refused to see him as he had a temp - re covid, even though it’s an ear infection. Wouldn’t give antibiotics without seeing him and said ‘he’s probably just burning it off.’

Sunday DS is really poorly but temp is only 38.8. Called out of hours to be told they still won’t see him but he’s getting better.

Monday DS is worse still so I contact GP. They also won’t see him and tell me to keep at home or take to A&E if I’m very worried.

At 2am Tuesday morning I did take him up to A&E. temp 39.9 still. A&E were great and he was seen quickly by a lovely doctor. Doc took one look in his ears and said he’s got a very severe infection in both and he needs antibiotics immediately. He was appalled that nobody had prescribed antibiotics when he worsened and that they didn’t see him.

I now have a very very poorly baby who has suffered for 5 days because in my opinion the GP failed to give him adequate care because they’re more concerned about covid than sick kids.

I do understand covid is very serious situation but a temp is a symptom of many things. Covid or not sick children shouldn’t be ignored.

AIBU to complain?

what seems so wrong is that this is a postcode lottery because my parents doctors on the whole have been very good . And they arranged blood tests at home and also a home visit because my mother was losing weight .

Plus she had a stroke at the peak of covid and was treated very well in hospital and afterwards .

So how can areas be so different ? Is it how the trusts run them ? I cant think of a different reason ?

@Dopeyduck

Thanks to those asking how the baby is.

DS is sleeping at the moment. Trying to let him rest and hoping the perforation has taken the edge off.

Will be waking him soon to take him to see the doctor who will decide if they can manage his fever at home or if he needs to be admitted to hospital.

I’m stressed and sad for him. It’s times like this that remind me what love and being a parent really is. It’s not that overwhelming rush at birth, it’s sitting unwashed without sleep trying to comfort a screaming child and wishing you could take their place or make it stop.

Parents really are, for the most part, remarkable people. Shout out to everyone else having a bad day.

If he's settled and sleeping can you go have a shower and maybe something to eat? You need to look after yourself too,especially if you might end up in the hospital with him. Hope he feels better soon and you get some rest.

The first thing anyone should do if they are having problems with their GP surgery is complain to the Practice Manager. Every surgery will have a complaints procedure. If the complaint is not dealt with or if the response is not adequate you then have the option to escalate to the health ombudsman. You could also contact the Clinical Commissioning Group (CCG) for your area - your Practice Manager will be able to tell you the contact details.

DS is asleep on me. He absolutely will not be out of my arms. Unless his daddy is here. Unfortunately he’s not as he’s away from us, having gone through several covid test to be able to return to work because he’s an emergency worker and others need him.

Just thought I’d throw that in there in case people think I’m throwing shit from a throne.

We too are working immensely hard in difficult circumstances.

Helpful post @MaMaD1990.

‘ Absolutely complain. All doctors have a duty of care to their patients regardless of a pandemic. I actually work in quality assuring doctors so they can continue their licence to practise (i.e. they're safe to see patients). I would 1. Make a complaint to the practice manager and 2. Request a 'patient feedback form' for the doctor concerned. This feedback form must go in what is called an 'Annual professional appraisal' and is poured over by a third party appraiser, line manager and designated body (which is where I work). This way the doctor MUST take responsibility for their professional actions and explain themselves. I'm sorry this happened to you and I hope your baby is feeling better now. If you want to take it even further, report them to the GMC (General Medical Council) and an investigation may be launched.’

Pure curiosity - does anyone know if the Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) pick up on number of complaints to the Practice Managers &/or patient feedback forms ?
I wonder if the CCGs can see an overall trend of how GOs are responding patients during COVID ?

Cross posted @Ocies.
Your local CCG will have it’s own web site.

@AllTheUserNamesAreTaken

I would complain about both the GP service and the out of hours service. It’s likely they are run by different providers. They need to start providing the service they are contracted to provide instead of shoving on to A&E. There seems no reason they could not give antibiotics as they had already confirmed ear infection (I was given a prescription for antibiotics after a phone consultation only yesterday, for a UTI, so of course it is possible!)

I understand why the OP is upset about the OOH doctor, but..

Why would you complain about the first GP, who followed national guidelines and gave exactly the correct advice?

The vast majority of ear infections in children are viral. Giving antibiotics does not help, and it puts the individual child at risk of personal antibiotic resistance, as well as side effects like diarrhoea.

A lot of posters on this thread clearly do not understand how serious antibiotic resistance is - not just for the population as a whole, but for the individual patient. Antibiotics kill many of the friendly bacteria in the gut, and can seriously impair immune responses. They should only be given when really necessary.

The first GP gave the right advice. The A&E doctor was correct to say that there should have been a review because the child deteriorated - and it was reasonable to start antibiotics at that point as a precaution (although it is still more likely that the infection was viral). It is only the OOH GP whose management was poor.

Some GP surgeries haven't been helpful over lockdown, mine certainly hasn't. Had a very similar battle trying to get them to see my child with an ear infection. By the time she was eventually seen she had passed her raging strep infection onto me, which was great. I also had to battle them to get her booster jabs done, and eventually had to enlist the health visitor to push them on the issue. On the 2 occasions we've been to the surgery, it's been completely empty.

I'm sure some GP's surgeries have done a great job over covid, but there is an absolute scandal waiting over lack of care for the ones that fobbed patients off.

Pure curiosity - does anyone know if the Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) pick up on number of complaints to the Practice Managers &/or patient feedback forms ?
I wonder if the CCGs can see an overall trend of how GOs are responding patients during COVID

Practices usually have to make an annual return regarding the number and type of complaint. However this return is on hold at the moment. But, when practices are inspected by CQC they often ask to see the complaints file.

The first thing anyone should do if they are having problems with their GP surgery is complain to the Practice Manager

GP practices do not run OOH GP services. The OP needs to complain to the OOH service provider.

The first GP gave the correct advice.

A GP on here recently said they were working 12 hours a day, begs the question what are they actually doing?

Obviously I can't comment about all GPs, but mine's spending the time expanding his private work and has quick appointments available to those prepared to pay. He's even advertising it, though he's being careful to do it by work of mouth to avoid the restrictions

Clearly all those risks of seeing patients F2F magically go away if there's more money in it. No doubt too, if those pushing for charges to see NHS GPs get their way, some will suddenly find themselves more available, Covid or not

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

The first thing anyone should do if they are having problems with their GP surgery is complain to the Practice Manager

GP practices do not run OOH GP services. The OP needs to complain to the OOH service provider.

The first GP gave the correct advice.

But the GP from the practise who refused to see him yesterday didn’t.

But the GP from the practise who refused to see him yesterday didn’t

I read the OP as meaning that the GP yesterday was also OOH?

@Mintychoc1 I am an ex GP who now does palliative care. GP is hard and relentless, and I would hate the reliance on telephone calls that you now have. I hope you're enjoying your day off!

Monday DS is worse still so I contact GP. They also won’t see him and tell me to keep at home or take to A&E if I’m very worried.

Seems to me like that was the GP. Both the practise and OOH where wrong.

@Painsnail the surgeries maybe empty because I’ve been getting online/phone consults

YANBU that's appalling. A high temperature in a young child can be a symptom of a lot of things and the fact that a GP had already diagnosed an ear infection should definitely have meant he was seen.

The initial response from the GP is/was fine imo but the follow up isn't.

I'd be making a complaint if I were you.

YANBU OP. I'd complain. Hope your DS feels better soon.

Different times and circumstances but I had horrendous ear infections as a baby, my mother was dismissed as fussy and overprotective for years. As a result I have permanent (partial) hearing loss.

Feel for you OP. My daughter kept pulling and scratching her ear and refusing to wear her hearing aids. Was such a fight to get her seen but it turned out she needed steroid cream. Was so angry with the surgery and will complain.

Hope little one is lots better soon x

[quote Georgeoftheinternet]@Painsnail the surgeries maybe empty because I’ve been getting online/phone consults[/quote]
Phone appointments are a great tool, and very useful for the right patients, but doctors replacing everything with them is madness. You can't take someone's blood over the phone, you can't do a swab, and you definitely can't run an immunization clinic. In an absolutely huge GP surgery like mine, I'd still expect to see some patients there waiting to be seen in person.

@Foxyloxxy7

Findahouse21 ‘My GP has told me tgat they won't give antibiotics for ear infections anymore as it only reduces the length of infection by 1-2 days. Easy to say, but I'd like my child to be pain free quicker thanks ‘

So your happy that millions will die from antibiotic resistant superbugs because you don’t want your child to have to take paracetamol for an earache for 24 hours longer? Great. Always good to know people consider the bigger picture...

Yes I thought the same as you

Why would you complain about the first GP, who followed national guidelines and gave exactly the correct advice?

The advice is right, under normal circumstances. However waiting for a temperature and fever to develop in the middle of a pandemic where they are two key symptoms of COVID and clearly can cause restrictions to the availability of treatment is problematic and inflexible.

We all know that antibiotic resistance is a problem, but so are many other things that are being allowed to worsen in healthcare as a result of this pandemic.

I’m a Dr and usually defend GP’s being careful about antibiotic prescribing and risks of Covid. However, in this instance they should have seen him. Practices will- or should- have procedures to manage patients with fever that may or may not be Covid. In some areas practices have “hot rooms”, in other areas they are sent to Covid assessment centres which are staffed by gp’s working in a co-operative set up (releasing go from practice to staff the assessment centre, with Out of hours gp’s staffing weekends) to try and keep practices from having potential Covid patients in the building. There are a variety of models but none of them should involve refusing to see a sick child.

I’m frontline NHS. Please make a complaint.

There’s no common sense currently thanks to covid precautions. People are being ignored and mistreated because as soon as a single covid symptom is mentioned then every other symptom goes out the window.

I hope he’s better soon