To be furious at GP....

[Dopeyduck]

Saw GP on Friday as DS was screaming inconsolably. Confirmed ear infection in both ears. As no temp no antibiotics were given. Pain relief and call back in a couple of days if no better.

Saturday DS developed a temp. By the middle of Saturday night it was 39.9 after paracetamol and ibuprofen, so I called 111 and spoke to out of hours GP.

She refused to see him as he had a temp - re covid, even though it’s an ear infection. Wouldn’t give antibiotics without seeing him and said ‘he’s probably just burning it off.’

Sunday DS is really poorly but temp is only 38.8. Called out of hours to be told they still won’t see him but he’s getting better.

Monday DS is worse still so I contact GP. They also won’t see him and tell me to keep at home or take to A&E if I’m very worried.

At 2am Tuesday morning I did take him up to A&E. temp 39.9 still. A&E were great and he was seen quickly by a lovely doctor. Doc took one look in his ears and said he’s got a very severe infection in both and he needs antibiotics immediately. He was appalled that nobody had prescribed antibiotics when he worsened and that they didn’t see him.

I now have a very very poorly baby who has suffered for 5 days because in my opinion the GP failed to give him adequate care because they’re more concerned about covid than sick kids.

I do understand covid is very serious situation but a temp is a symptom of many things. Covid or not sick children shouldn’t be ignored.

AIBU to complain?

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow - it is crystal clear from the OP that the GP surgery, not out of hours, refused to see the patient again on the Monday. The fact that the specific GP in that practice who saw the baby on the Friday does not work on Mondays is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for all the other GPs in the same practice to refuse to follow the case up. Fear of antibiotic resistance means it is essential you follow up properly if symptoms worsen, rather than pretending antibiotics are already ineffective against bacterial ear infections so you might as well wait until the child’s ear drum has burst...

Absolutely appalling that they didn't prescribe ABs as soon as he had a high temp. I burst my ear drum earlier this year through coughing and it was absolute agony, worse than childbirth. I would want him admitted for iv antibiotics and stronger pain relief at this point. Poor him and poor you. I hope he is better soon.

@gamerchick

Can I assume that every single person who has posted on this thread is unemployed? Because if they have a job, how can they be reading MN?

Is that the same as saying that people are basically liars when they report their frustrations with their GP surgeries because they can't see a doctor?

This IS happening. Saying you don't believe it is irritating. There's a word for it. People will start lashing out when they're repeatedly called a liar.

What you could do is advise people what to do if they're being ignored by their GP due to covid. Rather than just saying you find it hard to believe. Just a thought.

I’m responding to the accusation that any GP on mumsnet must be lying about their workload. The assumption being that if they’re on mumsnet then their job must be very undemanding.

However, I would take issue with complaint about the initial GP- they saw your DS and followed national guidelines which are only to prescribe antibiotics in specific circumstances- E.g. perforation or significant effusion. Most ear infections are viral or self-limiting without antibiotics. They gave appropriate worsening advice.

The issue is with Out of hours refusing to see him, and then the gp refusing to see him on the Monday. As I said in a previous post, they will have procedures for seeing patients who may have Covid and unacceptable to refuse to see a sick child.

I think many gp’s are working very hard, certainly in this area. I know our local gp’s are seeing patients because of the number of referrals I get in with examination findings and in person referrals. And from personal experience. My father has had excellent care from his GP over the last few months.

Sending a handhold!

Truthfully, a lot of GPs appear to be completely taking advantage of Covid to do less work than they did before.

I must be lucky, my GP is amazing. I needed to see her about something which couldnt be sorted over the phone and I was in her surgery within 30 mins of the phone call.

So please let's not pretend GP's are offering a "business as usual" service - it's failing badly.

Again, another broad generalisation.

No one is 'having fun' slagging off all GPs, as someone wrote.

But we do expect them to do their jobs, even during a pandemic. It's what they signed up for.

And I'm not 'unemployed' and able to sit home on MN happily slagging them all off either, as someone else has suggested.

I'm on half term. Not a throne, half term. I'm in school full time during term time, getting roughly minimum wage to put my own health at risk supporting everyone else's children. And I do it well. And I desperately want them all to stay in school because I can see the damage lockdown did to a lot of these children. And my own. So I will keep going in to do it until/if I get sick myself. And I'm not 'young', so it may be hard for me.

The vast majority of ear infections in children are viral.

Any studies or sources on that?

Saying it's not a business as usual service is not a generalisation either - it's a fact.

Well, it's my day off today (which is why I'm on this thread) but I'm still working from home (Practice Manager). My surgery today is offering telephone consultations and f2f consultations if clinically appropriate. There are home visits scheduled. We have possible COVID patients being seen (no hot hubs here). A GP will be undertaking a ward round at the local care home. There is a phelbotomy clinic. Our nurses are fully booked for smears, vaccinations, dressing changes and chronic illness reviews.

The only thing which has changed is the fact that patients have a telephone consultation in the first instance.

It's going to vary allover the country. But my GP surgery had 7 GPS and often a locum there too. Along with the nurse.

About 3 years ago they lost 2 GPS to new jobs etc. They have never been able to replace them. So the service has been extremely poor since. Waiting two months to be seen for routine things. Not been able to get an appointment full stop with the Dr of choice. Whilst I don't have enough knowledge to judge them. There are times I think they really should be more thorougher. For example back in January I managed to get an appointment with a nurse from another surgery in the evening trying to help out the back log. So it was about spotting and things. So I showered as always and got myself prepped for an internal. Sat at the desk and told the nurse everything and what had been done so far. She said you need to book in for smears, bloods and swabs. She did absolutely nothing that day. Just told me to go to the reception and book. So I said to them I would need to book for in 3 weeks time as I was available all week and the kids could be looked after. They said that they can't look that far ahead and to call back in two weeks to see if there's anything available. I just think the nurse could have done something! It was an absolute waste of an appointment.

Another example I went in march feeling absolutely exhausted, weak and unable to function. I was severely anemic again. I managed to get in with a paramedic this time supporting them. She took bloods. I said could she check my bp whilst I'm here. She said if I wanted that was fine. She finished the bloods. I said my BP??? She said oh yes sorry I forgot. Again why not check me properly when I'm there?

There's not enough GPS. Not enough time. Not enough care.

My final point is how it's changed. Now I'm not saying GPS should come to the house. But when I was a child they did come out. This was the 90s. But I remember when you had bad ears etc they would get the Dr round.

In 2015 3 days after giving birth. Everytime I slept I woke up saturated in sweat and feeling sick and dizzy. I called the midwife who said I had to be checked over by a gp. The gp said to go down. I had to drag myself out the house with a bucket. Burning up. Get my new baby looked after. My partner took my down. They confirmed I had s fever and stuff. Gave me antibiotics just incase. Then sent me home. I survived.but really in those cases you would think a home call from a midwife or Dr would have been best.

I could go on all day. But with the way it is all going the future doesn't look good. So many people get cancer missed etc. GPS don't always refer people quick enough. Or they push mental health. Everytime you have an issue. They throw anxiety out there.depression. it's like they want to just get you diagnosed with mental health to shut you up.

I appreciate it's going to vary. But near me it's gone downhill massively in the last few years. Probably through no fault of the GPS but the way it's run. Clearly nobody wants to jobs and they are on £112,000 a year at my surgery. I bet less and less will train up.

I agree with you, (first GP I think correct - majority times can /will settle without the antibiotics) and best to wait and see but after 48 hrs of temp and symptoms he should have started antibiotics.

A good option in this type of situation is a “delayed prescription” so the parent can get antibiotics from pharmacy after 48 hrs/an agreed period of time.

don’t GPs work 12 hours a day because the clinics open from 8-6.30/7? Plus they work four days a week?

I see a lot of GPs on here bemoaning 12 hour days (as if they're the only professionals on high salaries who do them), but I've not seen any mention 4 day weeks until now. Funny, that.

But we do expect them to do their jobs, even during a pandemic. It's what they signed up for.

Exactly. Dentists do, firemen do, policemen do, doctors in hospitals do. So why can't GPs?

won't give antibiotics for ear infections anymore as it only reduces the length of infection by 1-2 days
Bollocks it does, when my children have had ear infections they get iller and iller until the day antibiotics are prescribed, then 3 doses after that, they start to recover. It is the same whether I take them in after 3 days, 5 days, 7 days or 10 days of crying and sleeplessness.

Antimicrobial resistance needs to be dealt with by changing the farming system and ensuring compliance with dosage, not by making babies with ear infections get perforated eardrums.

A good option in this type of situation is a “delayed prescription” so the parent can get antibiotics from pharmacy after 48 hrs/an agreed period of time exactly, this is an excellent solution.

Particularly as the purpose of the consultation is triage

No, it's not. It's a telephone consultation, it isn't triage the way we do it at this surgery.

This is happening everywhere. I knew my asthma was getting worse, rang for a phone appointment. Wouldn't see me as my asthma cough could be covid, made me take a pointless covid test, then still wouldn't see me. This went on for a week until I had a full blown asthma attack (which I think could have been prevented with steroids) and I ended up in intensive care for 4 days, and hospital for a week.Got discharged Monday and told to make an appointment with GP urgently for preventative measures / asthma assessment, GP still won't see me as I am short of breath and could be covid! I honestly have given up with them.

[quote Walkaround]@Tappering - what on earth makes you think it’s because we have universal free healthcare that people do not like negative feedback?! Try getting a doctor in the US to happily admit to negligence, why don’t you?![/quote]
@Walkaround please don't take my words out of context. I said that some quarters of the NHS are not responsive to negative feedback - as illustrated by some posters on this thread claiming it's a "GP bashing thread" and immediately casting doubt on whether other posters' experiences are true or not, because their NHS areas have been busy.

My point was underpinned by the fact that the NHS and its mandate of universal healthcare is sometimes deified by some people, who take the view that it's free at point of use, therefore you should suck it up if it goes wrong or doesn't deliver what it should in terms of patient care and outcomes.

I don't see the relevance of your point about US healthcare as we're talking about the NHS.

@BuggerBognor - my df was a GP and he said when they first started contracting out their out of hours services and weekend cover that it was the end of GPs as a truly useful service and the end of it being a satisfying professional role. Once this country lost the “family doctor” model, as it patently now has (I don’t know who the GPs at my practice are, as I have never seen the same one more than twice and they keep leaving and being replaced, or work part time, making it harder to see the same person each time if going back for an ongoing issue), I think we would have been better off looking into the alternative ways people access medical care in other European countries.