To be furious at GP....

[Dopeyduck]

Saw GP on Friday as DS was screaming inconsolably. Confirmed ear infection in both ears. As no temp no antibiotics were given. Pain relief and call back in a couple of days if no better.

Saturday DS developed a temp. By the middle of Saturday night it was 39.9 after paracetamol and ibuprofen, so I called 111 and spoke to out of hours GP.

She refused to see him as he had a temp - re covid, even though it’s an ear infection. Wouldn’t give antibiotics without seeing him and said ‘he’s probably just burning it off.’

Sunday DS is really poorly but temp is only 38.8. Called out of hours to be told they still won’t see him but he’s getting better.

Monday DS is worse still so I contact GP. They also won’t see him and tell me to keep at home or take to A&E if I’m very worried.

At 2am Tuesday morning I did take him up to A&E. temp 39.9 still. A&E were great and he was seen quickly by a lovely doctor. Doc took one look in his ears and said he’s got a very severe infection in both and he needs antibiotics immediately. He was appalled that nobody had prescribed antibiotics when he worsened and that they didn’t see him.

I now have a very very poorly baby who has suffered for 5 days because in my opinion the GP failed to give him adequate care because they’re more concerned about covid than sick kids.

I do understand covid is very serious situation but a temp is a symptom of many things. Covid or not sick children shouldn’t be ignored.

AIBU to complain?

Oh the poor little lad and you, that's awful.

Hope he now makes a quick recovery.

[quote Walkaround]@Tappering - of course defensiveness is not an appropriate response, but people posting on here are not responding to professional complaints in their workplace, are they? This is not an NHS complaints service. People on here are responding defensively as private citizens, as is their right, because they are not listening to a formal complaint, they are reading what feels to them (not always justifiably - certainly not in this case!) like a one sided attack and they are trying overly hard to put across another possible interpretation of the situation.[/quote]
But in the nicest possible way, it's ludicrous for one NHS worker to be defensive towards another poster who has experienced poor treatment in a separate and unrelated area of the NHS, just because they also work for the NHS! I don't think it's reasonable to accuse a poster of lying when they share experiences of bad outcomes and interactions with the NHS.

Anyway I suggest we agree to disagree as we are clearly going round in circles!

@Tappering - meh. I still disagree. “In the nicest possible way,” if an NHS worker finds it hard to believe someone’s story on Mumsnet, then that’s tantamount to agreeing that if what the poster claims happened really had happened exactly like that, then it was phenomenally negligent - so bad, they are having a hard time believing it from hearing just one side of the story.

‘LockdownLil

won't give antibiotics for ear infections anymore as it only reduces the length of infection by 1-2 days
Bollocks it does, when my children have had ear infections they get iller and iller until the day antibiotics are prescribed, then 3 doses after that, they start to recover. It is the same whether I take them in after 3 days, 5 days, 7 days or 10 days of crying and sleeplessness.

Antimicrobial resistance needs to be dealt with by changing the farming system and ensuring compliance with dosage, not by making babies with ear infections get perforated eardrums.’

Firstly, correlation doesn’t prove causation. Secondly, anecdotal evidence isn’t evidence. There are large studies that far surpass the evidence provided by your own experience. About 80% of ear infections are viral so antibiotics don’t work. Of the remaining 20% of infections a lot will clear up on their own with no need for antibiotics. There is a very small percentage (about 2% depending on what study you read) that get a perforated ear drum. So it’s important to not give unnecessary antibiotic but try and cherry pick the ones that need them. The only thing that denotes this is time. Obviously with hindsight it appears an obvious choice but it’s not! So not giving antibiotics and watching and waiting with appropriate advice if when you seek further help is the only option really. This is what the first GP did but unfortunately for OP’s kid things fell down after that in this case.

Antibiotic resistance is contributed to by farming for sure but mis-use in humans has a huge affect. We’re seeing huge spikes in resistance from MRSA to multi-drug resistant TB to super Gonorrhoea. No, the farming industry isn’t all to blame. It’s attitudes that people are entitled to cut short a naturally self limiting infection or to not finish a course of antibiotics because it gave them a bit of diarrhoea (a very natural side effect of antibiotics).

@Foxyloxxy7

‘LockdownLil

won't give antibiotics for ear infections anymore as it only reduces the length of infection by 1-2 days
Bollocks it does, when my children have had ear infections they get iller and iller until the day antibiotics are prescribed, then 3 doses after that, they start to recover. It is the same whether I take them in after 3 days, 5 days, 7 days or 10 days of crying and sleeplessness.

Antimicrobial resistance needs to be dealt with by changing the farming system and ensuring compliance with dosage, not by making babies with ear infections get perforated eardrums.’

Firstly, correlation doesn’t prove causation. Secondly, anecdotal evidence isn’t evidence. There are large studies that far surpass the evidence provided by your own experience. About 80% of ear infections are viral so antibiotics don’t work. Of the remaining 20% of infections a lot will clear up on their own with no need for antibiotics. There is a very small percentage (about 2% depending on what study you read) that get a perforated ear drum. So it’s important to not give unnecessary antibiotic but try and cherry pick the ones that need them. The only thing that denotes this is time. Obviously with hindsight it appears an obvious choice but it’s not! So not giving antibiotics and watching and waiting with appropriate advice if when you seek further help is the only option really. This is what the first GP did but unfortunately for OP’s kid things fell down after that in this case.

Antibiotic resistance is contributed to by farming for sure but mis-use in humans has a huge affect. We’re seeing huge spikes in resistance from MRSA to multi-drug resistant TB to super Gonorrhoea. No, the farming industry isn’t all to blame. It’s attitudes that people are entitled to cut short a naturally self limiting infection or to not finish a course of antibiotics because it gave them a bit of diarrhoea (a very natural side effect of antibiotics).

Thank you. Also perforated eardrums commonly occur from “ tube dysfunction” which is pressure in ear causing pain, often with a temperature (as viral) and the perforation will happen regardless of whether antibiotics are given or not. It’s the pressure that causes the perforation.

[quote Walkaround]@Tappering - meh. I still disagree. “In the nicest possible way,” if an NHS worker finds it hard to believe someone’s story on Mumsnet, then that’s tantamount to agreeing that if what the poster claims happened really had happened exactly like that, then it was phenomenally negligent - so bad, they are having a hard time believing it from hearing just one side of the story.[/quote]
Tell that to the victims of vaginal mesh. Or the women who were victims of Ian Patterson.

Poor boy. Early prevention is key and they failed to do that. He's a child fgs they should have taken it more serious. They still have a duty of care and they failed in the first few days.

Hope he is on the mend OP. Such a worrying time when your babies are poorly.

Contrast - we were on holiday in rural Germany in the summer. Dd age 11 developed an ear infection. The lovely town doctor saw her the same day and prescribed medicine that cleared it up within 3 days.

My mouth actually dropped open at this OP. Your poor baby

I hope your DS is on the mend, OP. What a horrific experience for him and for you.

@Tappering - what on earth has that got to do specifically with people posting on mumsnet? Or the NHS? The same sorts of stories can be told worldwide when it comes to negligence and refusal to take people seriously. It’s not as if it didn’t take a ridiculously long time for anyone to take seriously the link between smoking and cancer; or human behaviour and climate change, to name but a couple of examples where all human beings show their true colours.

And @TapperingTapperin, for your information, women are suing in Australia and the US over vaginal mesh. So wtf are you still specifically complaining about it being an NHS issue, for?

It was in response to your 'meh' comment. I'm well aware of the class action suits about vaginal mesh.

Anyway, gotta get some RL work done - have a nice day

God I wish all the point scorers and deniers would fuck off to a different thread and let the OP have her thread back.

OP, how are things now?

So many things are being missed be because of potential covid, although every illness brings with it a temperature. Your poor boy op, i hope he is on the mend now be sure to make a written complaint especially as this is a child x

@Tappering - our entire on-going conversation has been based on your original claim that there is a specific problem with the way the NHS reacts to issues, as you know! It’s not as if we disagree on whether the OP received appallingly bad treatment.

@Alternista - the OP has received plenty of good advice on complaining and how to complain, and that she is justified in complaining. The only time she has complained about the thread being derailed is when she made the specific point that she did not want to use the thread as a general complaint about the NHS, just a specific situation.

I really hope you will complain OP.

Five years ago an immediate relative of mine developed a painful ear infection after swimming. Poo poohed by GP equivalent (not in UK). No antibiotics given. After a week, given oral antibiotics - by this time in terrible ‘writhing on the floor’ pain. The oral antibiotics were too little too late. 30 hours after starting the oral antibiotics relative was in intensive care, in a coma state, receiving high dose intravenous antibiotics & steroids, with pneumoccal meningitis which had been caused by - spread from - the ear infection. (Confirmed by the specialists involved in treatment after intensive investigations, scans, peering into the ear, etc - no doubt at all that the untreated ear infection caused the bacterial meningitis.) A week in intensive care, 2 weeks subsequently on a neurology ward, months of rehabilitation. Lucky to have survived.

Ear infections with acute pain and temperature need to be taken seriously. This GP and out of hours service need to review their practice.

Btw do let us know how your poor little boy is OP! I’m going to worry about him now!

Saw on another thread, her son has been admitted to hospital

Turns out I was absolutely not unreasonable. http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4065318-Turns-out-I-was-absolutely-not-unreasonable

Sorry to not update this thread. DS was admitted to hospital and had three days of IV antibiotics. Blood tests showed it was in fact a bacterial infection and that the oral antibiotics given in A&E were too little too late.

DS is now thankfully recovering from the ordeal at home and I have since complaint and I’m awaiting a response from my complaint. The consultant at the hospital has also complained.

A PP has linked to my new thread. Thanks for all the support!

Don't even think of apologising, Dopeyduck - your attention's rightly been on your DS

I'm just glad he's finally recovering and good luck with taking this further; good too that the consultant's joined you in this, though I suspect you'll find them full of excuses as a barn's full of bats

Jesus OP, that’s dreadful. I’m so sorry your DS has had to go to hospital. Total negligence.