AIBU to think I'd rather take my chances with the virus...

[User3billion]

...than give up any more freedom?!

I'm in a tier 3 area and I'm so done. I'm sick of people in tier 1 areas preaching on social media about what we should and shouldn't be doing (especially given it can vary from one tier 3 area to the next). I'm sick of feeling like a prisoner in my own home. I'm sick of not being able to trust a single thing our government says.

I don't understand how we've got to a point in the UK, in 2020, where it's ILLEGAL to visit family we don't live with. And what's worse is that people are happy to go along with this! It's all kinds of wrong.

We deride other countries that deprive their citizens of their civil liberties and yet here we are.

"This is based on the assumption that following the regulations is automatically safer than not, which simply isn't true."

Exactly. Where I live we have a curfew. This is to prevent wild parties. My walking in the street after curfew doesn't increase the risk of spreading the virus.

OP, YANBU. I can’t believe that people are so relaxed about the removal of fundamental rights and the destruction of the economy. The government is incompetent and there is no evidence that local lockdowns are remotely effective in reducing transmission.

This is based on the assumption that following the regulations is automatically safer than not, which simply isn't true.

I'm not making that assumption at all .I agree that breaking the rules doesn't automatically mean the risk of infection will be increased on an individual level . However ,OP isn't saying that she will break the rules in a way that won't increase her risk of getting infected. She is saying that she will take her chances and break the rules even if it does mean she will get infected. Others seem to have a similar attitude.

@HermioneWeasley

OP, YANBU. I can’t believe that people are so relaxed about the removal of fundamental rights and the destruction of the economy. The government is incompetent and there is no evidence that local lockdowns are remotely effective in reducing transmission.

I live in an area where there have been local restrictions for quite some time now. At one point I think we had the highest rate in the country. Now infections are quite a bit lower than many other places and we are tier 2. In areas where there are no local restrictions a few weeks ago infections have gone through the roof and they are now in tier 3 which will have a big impact on local businesses and economy.

@08689326gno

I hold a different view. I'm not thinking of my own chances so much as my child and husband. Protecting them is something I'm happy to do but we don't all feel the same way.

Very wise and considerate. I feel exactly the same. I’m just into my fourth week of being very ill with Covid. It’s absolutely horrendous and I’ve never been this ill. The thought of people just saying “fuck it” to the measures that are in place is infuriating. People think that if they ignore the measures and just see their families, it’s only their families they put at risk. It’s so much wider than this.

I don’t know what the answer is and I’m glad I’m not in charge of decision making for the country. I know we can’t hide away forever and we have to build immunity. I’m praying my children don’t get it as they both have asthma.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome....

Lockdowns are simply not working, even the WHO states that they should only be used to plan and put in place other measures like effective testing/track and trace and building hospital capacity and are not a way to defeat the virus.

Our government has squandered the lockdowns we have had.

We are fast approaching the point where people will simply refuse to comply.

And yes I think that the damage to our mental health, to the treatment of other conditions (you only have to look at the number of people who died of heart attacks, cancer and other conditions during the lockdown due to lack of care) and the economy in general is no longer sustainable or justified.

The majority of people survive the virus and the average of someone who dies of it is 82, which is above our average life expectancy. I cannot see the logic in destroying everything with lockdowns when you look at the facts.

I agree with Delatron.

I do of course continue to obey all the rules. But inside I'm so fed up of this shit. I'd rather just get it ASAP and be done with it.

Most people are asymptomatic, do the covid they've had can't be that bad! And the nightingale hospitals weren't even fucking used. What a joke.

@Requinblanc

Completely agree with you. I shared similar views quite recently, albeit in a much less eloquent, and more ranty, way.

Be prepared for the backlash. You're right but you'll still get blamed. Apparently, despite having followed the rules to the bloody letter, I still find myself solely responsible for putting the whole of the north of England into Tier 3

And yes I think that the damage to our mental health, to the treatment of other conditions (you only have to look at the number of people who died of heart attacks, cancer and other conditions during the lockdown due to lack of care) and the economy in general is no longer sustainable or justified.

How exactly is allowing Covid to rip through the population going to help people with other conditions? Not only will hospitals be overrun with a lot of the staff sick that people with cardiovascular disease, cancer and other conditions will be the ones at higher risk of dying if they catch it.

How exactly is refusing to comply with lockdown going to help the economy? If cases rise they will probably just shut more things down and local businesses and the economy will suffer more.

The more cases in your area, the longer you will be in Tier 3 and the more chance of further restrictions.
This makes a lot of sense in theory but there are areas in higher tiers with lower levels than others in lower tiers and it doesn’t seem to work as it should logically at all. Some councils are begging to go into a higher tier.
Then there are areas with very high levels but falling like Nottingham where levels are declining very quickly (from a high base) yet moved into Tier 3 as their numbers are declining sharply.

If you could monitor your local levels and there were publicised thresholds that you automatically moved in and out of tiers I would agree with you. People need to feel like there is a way out of Tier 2 and 3 or what’s the point? Nottingham is a good example of this..

If cases rise they will probably just shut more things down and local businesses and the economy will suffer more.

Well, we need to start saying 'no' then. The gyms in Liverpool took a stand and it didn't take long for them to back down.

@persheptions

There is such an absence of intelligence on this thread! A wonderful argument for why the masses shouldn't get to choose what they do in a global emergency.

And certainly shouldn't allow them a referendum on it. There's a petition now asking for the public to have a referendum re restrictions . We can see how well the last one turned out.

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace

If cases rise they will probably just shut more things down and local businesses and the economy will suffer more.

Well, we need to start saying 'no' then. The gyms in Liverpool took a stand and it didn't take long for them to back down.

Perhaps the Liverpool gym owners took a moment to think through the consequences of their actions. Just possibly they engaged their brains and realised the sooner containment measures are taken the quicker they'd be able to get back to normal.

They might also have listened to their mayor. Joe Anderson has spoken about his disgust at seeing the Covid Deniers 'protesting' mass gathering when he'd just lost his brother to it. I don't blame him. These 'people' (I'm being polite here) were almost deliberately trying to spread it, what with their mass gathering on public transport and in busy streets without masks. Jeremy Hunt might like them...no longer will he be the number one enemy of doctors.... because I'm sure the under pressure traumatised doctors, nurses, and other health and social care staff just love all the Deniers and Downplayers. Whether it's coming from a place of I'm alright jack selfishness or IQ challenged stupidity the consequences are the same.

“Did you even read the paragraph you quoted?

CRUDE MORTALITY is number of deaths/number of cases. That's a pretty useless statistic as the true number of "cases" is likely to be far, far higher than the number of verified positive tests. Imagine how many asymptomatic/mild cases of Covid have gone undiagnosed. Do you really think the average person has a 3-4% of dying if they catch COVID?

Dumb dumb.”

gjejge

I know how the crude mortality figure is calculated thanks (it tells you in the article) and no I don’t believe that 3-4% of people who catch COVID die from it. I didn’t say that. What I did say is that the WHO (and others) say it is worse than flu and I stand by that.

Given the absolute bollocks you are spouting in some of your posts I don’t think you should be calling anyone dumb

I am not getting any chances for my mom, my DH, and my grandparents.

@nolongersurprised

I don’t understand why people are saying that it’ll be over sooner if people actually comply with lockdowns. The opposite is true.

With open borders and no effective public health track and trace it’s impossible to eradicate community spread. It’ll only be over when there’s a widespread effective vaccine or when most people have had the virus, assuming there’s functional immunity after wild-type infection. If there’s no vaccine for a while then lockdowns mean fewer people get it all at once but also means fewer people become immune.

The whole point of lockdown isn’t to eradicate the virus - that’s impossible now - but to “flatten the curve”.

I’m in Australia where there’s been the advantage of living on and island but there’ve also been tight border closures and an effective track and trace. I know people who work in public health and they’ve been working crazy hours since this has commenced. Im a rule follower as well but I’d be pissed off if I lived in a country where I couldn’t visit a close relative “because Covid” but there was still free movement into the country.

with open borders and no effective track and trace

I'd be pissed off if I lived in a country where I couldn't visit a close relative "because Covid" but there was still free movement into the country

Yes absolutely. We need to restrict our borders. Unless and until we do, we don't actually have proper restrictions - and it's why those that we do have in place will have to last for longer, or keep being reimposed on off on off on off.

We, like you, are an island. We could and should have used our island advantage.

I was saying this in August. I said if we'd did it then we could have a normalish Christmas. Like you (and my family in Australia) will be able to have).

We could've done the same as Melbourne - who have demonstrated that it is possible to get an outbreak under control - when there's the will.

Unfortunately unlike Australia we are whingeing Poms who prefer to cry we can't we can't we can't (see the reply to the poster who referenced the Isle of Man).

We can't because we spend all our time whingeing that we can't...

*We, like you, are an island. We could and should have used our island advantage.

I was saying this in August. I said if we'd did it then we could have a normalish Christmas. Like you (and my family in Australia) will be able to have).*

We should have done it in bloody February!

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace

If cases rise they will probably just shut more things down and local businesses and the economy will suffer more.

Well, we need to start saying 'no' then. The gyms in Liverpool took a stand and it didn't take long for them to back down.

Who is "we". My understanding is that they change their minds with regard to the gyms because there is evidence that they weren't increasing the spread. Plus, they help people stay healthy. I don't think the same can be said for pubs.

Perhaps the Liverpool gym owners took a moment to think through the consequences of their actions. Just possibly they engaged their brains and realised the sooner containment measures are taken the quicker they'd be able to get back to normal.

No, the gyms owners took a stand and refused to close. It was the government who backed down and allowed them to re-open.

A bit of United We Stand against the random, arbitrary and often ridiculous rules may be the order of the day.

We is anyone with the fucking backbone!

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace

We is anyone with the fucking backbone!

That assumes that everyone disagrees with the closures and are not protesting because they lack backbone. I don't think that's the case at all. Most people think something needs to be done about the rapidly rising cases. A lot of people don't think the government is doing enough in England.

As for 'fundamental rights' and Frreeeeedooommmmm, the first and most fundamental right of all is the right to life.

Closely followed by something many in this country have long been denied - shelter. Perhaps those who are so concerned about human rights might like to focus first on campaigning for that right.

A PP said it well yesterday (apologies I can't remember which one of you it was)
Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins

We do NOT have total FREEDOM in the UK (or in any country). There are many things lots of people would like to do but do not have the freedom to do. Many have only individual consequences and so are arguably more worthy of fighting for.

Legalised drugs, for example. The consequences would be far more individual (and would boost the tax coffers) than the individual, economic, and societal damage of uncontained Covid. Go campaign for that if you want 'Freedom'.

How about assisted suicide. We don't even have the freedom to choose a good death (too often condemned instead to an undignified painful one). Another campaign for the Freedom campaigners.

Those campaigns should be quite enough to keep you freedom lot busy for now. Off you go. I look forward to hearing about your efforts.

Off you go

Why? Because you say so? Where's the freedom in that?

To me the lockdown did work to an extent and I don't understand people saying that there is no evidence lockdowns work. The nhs wasn't overrun, we didn't need the nightingale hospitals and the R number came down, infections and deaths went down be it slowly. So it did work then. It was how we came out of it which was the problem and always will be a problem, this led to the situation we are now in. People thought it had simply gone when we restrictions started to ease, we came out too fast with the government encouraging us to eat and drink out. The track and trace wasn't set up properly and students went back to uni. That's why we are in this position. I think lockdown did work but only if people follow it.

Also much stricter lockdowns in New Zealand and China have worked. So lockdowns can work. Ours wasn't quick enough or strict enough IMO