AIBU to think I'd rather take my chances with the virus...

[User3billion]

...than give up any more freedom?!

I'm in a tier 3 area and I'm so done. I'm sick of people in tier 1 areas preaching on social media about what we should and shouldn't be doing (especially given it can vary from one tier 3 area to the next). I'm sick of feeling like a prisoner in my own home. I'm sick of not being able to trust a single thing our government says.

I don't understand how we've got to a point in the UK, in 2020, where it's ILLEGAL to visit family we don't live with. And what's worse is that people are happy to go along with this! It's all kinds of wrong.

We deride other countries that deprive their citizens of their civil liberties and yet here we are.

I'm in a tier 2 area and we are sticking to the rules because although it's likely DH and I will get it st some point I really don't want to pass it into my elderly parents and MIL.

However, I am really concerned at the freedoms that are being removed and how willing people are in complying with them. This scares me more than the virus itself.

I don't understand how we've got to a point in the UK, in 2020, where it's ILLEGAL to visit family we don't live with.

If you genuinely don't understand it then maybe don't act in ways that put people at risk who do understand it?

To put it bluntly, you using your civil liberties irresponsibly may take away others' civil liberties permanently because you could damage them.

This government have managed it appallingly though.

I’m happy for you to take your chances too, OP.

However, this virus won’t end with you, and you’ll likely pass it on to other more vulnerable people who others care about so, on that basis, YABVU.

Now, wear your mask, wash your hands, and keep your distance.

I've found it interesting, and a little disturbing, to see how readily people have been willing to give up the basic bedrocks of liberal democracies, like freedom of association, and freedom of movement. And to do so without any kind of real timeline or exit strategy being discussed.

I don't think there is a clear right answer to the problem. But what is being asked of people is quite significant, with no real clear idea of how effective it is really likely to be. The dismissal of people who think it's problematic, or even just asking the question, is a bit shocking.

@User3billion

...than give up any more freedom?!

I'm in a tier 3 area and I'm so done. I'm sick of people in tier 1 areas preaching on social media about what we should and shouldn't be doing (especially given it can vary from one tier 3 area to the next). I'm sick of feeling like a prisoner in my own home. I'm sick of not being able to trust a single thing our government says.

I don't understand how we've got to a point in the UK, in 2020, where it's ILLEGAL to visit family we don't live with. And what's worse is that people are happy to go along with this! It's all kinds of wrong.

We deride other countries that deprive their citizens of their civil liberties and yet here we are.

If it only impacted you, I'd say jog on and dkvt anticipate making use of the NHS thsts trying it's damnedest to save the lives of thousands, including those who stretch its services due to such abject stupidity and ignorance /arrogance.

You going about as you wish will no doubt lead to the spread and deaths of loved ones for someone, even if not you, or lead to someone being longer term impacted.

But eh, you worry solely about your wants!

If it would only affect you id say go for it. Chances are you'd be fine, possibly you'd get vivid, if you were extremely unlucky you'd die. 🤷‍♀️

The problem isn't you taking your chances. It's you taking chances on behalf of other people who are vulnerable or who live with or care for someone who is.

I wish it was the case that people make their own choice and nobody else is affected but since that isn't the case, I think we all just need to work together as best we can.

Absolutely agree @Goosefoot that's what is worrying me now - in Scotland the 'tier 0' still sets a limit of 8 people indoors from 3 households.

We're in the dark patch though where the second wave has come earlier in the winter than perhaps expected and the vaccine isn't quite ready yet, so hopefully 2021 will look a lot better...

@Sallycinnamum

I'm in a tier 2 area and we are sticking to the rules because although it's likely DH and I will get it st some point I really don't want to pass it into my elderly parents and MIL.

However, I am really concerned at the freedoms that are being removed and how willing people are in complying with them. This scares me more than the virus itself.

I think most people are the same as you. They don’t like their freedoms curtailed but they don’t want to infect others (some of whom could be very sick).

At the moment I value access to an NHS that isn’t overrun far more than my right to visit friends and family. And I’m really struggling with not seeing family. But my son needed emergency treatment not long ago. NHS wasn’t overwhelmed and it was fine, had the NHS been overwhelmed it might have been a different story.

To the people assuming I'm not following the rules, haven't followed the rules, you're part of the problem - part of why I, and millions of others, feel this way!

Where's the science? Where's the proof that any of this is working (it clearly isn't) but we flow.it anyway.

Overwhelming the NHS?? Yes, the Nightingale hospitals were overflowing weren't they... Oh wait, no they weren't.

What about vulnerable people who've died from countless other things because they were too frightened to "overwhelm the NHS".

Yes there needs to be action but criminalising visiting family is not the way forward.

And if tier 3 is so effective then why is London not subject to the same restrictions?!

Why don't we publish the daily/weekly deaths from flu every night on the news?!

Totally get where you’re coming from. In what universe is it basically not ok to see your parents/kids grandparents indefinitely? Bonkers isn’t it. We all have an obligation to be sensible and protect the nhs and the vulnerable but it’s the idiotic attitudes of a minority which means we are ALL suffering in a similar way.
Am also so angry at the government. 6 months in and track and trace is a shambles, is unforgiveable.

@User3billion “ Why don't we publish the daily/weekly deaths from flu every night on the news?!”

If you think this is anything like the flu no wonder you want to through caution to the wind. Covid is not like the flu at all. Please don’t tell me you are one of those people still going around saying ‘sure it’s just a bad cold’

@User3billion

To the people assuming I'm not following the rules, haven't followed the rules, you're part of the problem - part of why I, and millions of others, feel this way!

Where's the science? Where's the proof that any of this is working (it clearly isn't) but we flow.it anyway.

Overwhelming the NHS?? Yes, the Nightingale hospitals were overflowing weren't they... Oh wait, no they weren't.

What about vulnerable people who've died from countless other things because they were too frightened to "overwhelm the NHS".

Yes there needs to be action but criminalising visiting family is not the way forward.

And if tier 3 is so effective then why is London not subject to the same restrictions?!

Why don't we publish the daily/weekly deaths from flu every night on the news?!

Our hospitals are nearly at capacity in Manchester.

I'm sure many think the same. Yanbu if this is how you feel.
I am fed up but not willing to take the risk so sticking to the strictest boring restrictions. Even if I wanted to break the rule it is pointless the country is shut down.

I am similarly worn down and frustrated by the restrictions on life.

That said, I am vulnerable. I live with my vulnerable parents, including diabetic father in his 70's. My daughter lives with us. We have lived in virtual isolation since March, barring my daughter visiting her Father for contact (post 1st lock down) and returning to school in September.

I HAVE to send my daughter to school (secondary) both for her sanity and because it is law. There are 700 other families sending their children to the school.

Each family and their choices impacts our family. If the virus spreads in the school, it's distinctly possible it will make it's way to our home. It may kill one of us. We've already had 2 deaths in our family, I'm at the end of my tether.

My daughter HAS to have contact with her Father (we are divorced). Her Father has similar views to you, and has literally just found out his youngest is a close contact of a Covid positive case. He was at his Father's house staying for half term when he was notified. His Father (late 70's) is now frightened within an inch of his life. Unlike my Father he does not have health issues. Had fate twisted a different way, my Father could have been exposed. His diabetes is out of control due to the worry he is feeling over the pandemic. I've seen my Father almost disintegrate with fear all year - it has been horrific to watch.

Whatever price I may put on ''freedom'' or that I might be paying (suffering?) for the lack of it, my conscious could not bear that my freedom cost another their life. Dramatic? perhaps. Reality, certainly looks that way to me.

People can do whatever they like in my view, so long as their actions do not impact others.

Your actions, my actions, everyone's impact everybody else.

My family, your family and everybody's mean more to me that my own personal desire to do as I please without constraint.

How quickly everyone seems to have forgotten what can happen when this virus gets out of control

Army trucks in Italy removing the dead:

Dead buried in paupers graves in New York:

www.google.ie/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/nyregion/coronavirus-deaths-hart-island-burial.amp.html

Anyone seen the pictures of bodies piled up in Russia . Sounds like they are hiding true figures. Even at the beginning they had ambulances quad up for 9 hours .

And work colleagues in Czech Republic are very scared about how bad it is , already closing businesses because of so many off sick .

I fear it could get worse , especially if people break rules.

Plus can someone explain why track and trace is so important if we are all following the rules because then we would not be passing it on ? Or you could notify your contacts yourself .?

I understand your point of view BUT what you do may well harm other people and cause massive problems for the NHS and country as a whole. If it affects you only, carry on, but you are not the only one who will be affected.

I wouldn't want to take my chances - I am over 65 and scared I will catch it. I have so many things I still want to do with my life and it saddens me that a certain section of society will not adhere to the rules to protect others. Why should we cower at home because 20 somethings want to party and carry the virus back to their older relatives? It makes me cry to see TV programmes recorded last year where people are in huge crowds, mingling and chatting, and all that has gone and might never come back.

And why we all need to keep our distance from family members in general never mind the rules:

www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/up-to-70-covid-19-cases-in-cavan-linked-to-family-who-attended-fermanagh-wedding-39669184.html

A spike of up to 70 Covid-19 cases in Co. Cavan has been linked to family who attended a wedding in Northern Ireland, it has emerged.

It is understood the family picked up the virus when they went across the border to attend the nuptials in Co. Fermanagh.

They then, unknowingly, infected a wider group of people on their return - much to the dismay of local public health officials.

There is no suggestion the family breached the Covid-19 regulations that were in place at time.

You are right OP, for a virus with less than 1% mortality rate, this is madness.

I think people were prepared to actively comply with the first lockdown because we hadn’t yet seen what an absolute shitshow this Government would make of managing the pandemic.

From locking down too late, to Cummings and the blatant disregard for public finance rules. This Government have seen the pandemic as an opportunity for their mates in Serco, Capita, Deloitte et al to coin in the money.
Test and Trace is a fucking national disgrace, not to mention all of the shell companies being awarded huge PPE contracts.
As a PP said, the monies wrongfully apportioned could have been used for individual financial assistance for people losing their jobs and at risk of losing their homes. Universal Credit is NOT enough.
I think the suicides will start piling up over financial ruin.

Look at all the nations around the world where covid management has been more successful.
I loathed this Government even before covid, now I think they are venal and criminal and should be prosecuted.

Anyone seen the pictures of bodies piled up in Russia
Awful. Then there was the bodied in New York been shelved in trucks as everywhere was full. The army of coffins in Italy, the mass graves in Brazil and Mexico.
I wondered throughout where was the UK images considering the amount who died.

You have a choice follow the regulations and get this over with quicker, or do what you want, which them impacts on everyone else as it continues for much longer

Personally I am following the rules as I don’t want to catch it seeing what’s it’s done to friends and family.

I also don’t want the nhs to fall over and all the frontline staff who have worked so hard through this, often getting abuse from morons if in retail, or seen what Covid has done if in the nhs to have to carry on doing this for much longer as people are ‘so done with it’

Temporary is one thing but semi-permanent restrictions are a whole different ball game

This is a fair point. Freedom has a value and people seem to forget that.

I am a rule follower because I think the consequences of letting it rip are so horrific that the restrictions are justified at present but i don’t agree with the “oh but what if you infect someone” attitude on this thread either because I suspect in 5 years time it will still be the case that by interacting with other people you might pass on covid. I hope there is a sterilising vaccine that means this isn’t the case but that’s not my understanding of what’s expected from the first round of them. There will come a point where the risk of infecting someone else with covid is something people will just have to take. For my part, I don’t think that point is now, but it will have to come some time. For the OP, it has come now.

On the civil liberties question.... it is akin to a wartime setting. During WWII (no, I don’t remember it) the population had to accept rationing, blackouts and a load of other restrictions. I don’t think any of them liked it (except the black marketeers), but they largely complied. Because the alternative was worse.