AIBU to think I'd rather take my chances with the virus...

[User3billion]

...than give up any more freedom?!

I'm in a tier 3 area and I'm so done. I'm sick of people in tier 1 areas preaching on social media about what we should and shouldn't be doing (especially given it can vary from one tier 3 area to the next). I'm sick of feeling like a prisoner in my own home. I'm sick of not being able to trust a single thing our government says.

I don't understand how we've got to a point in the UK, in 2020, where it's ILLEGAL to visit family we don't live with. And what's worse is that people are happy to go along with this! It's all kinds of wrong.

We deride other countries that deprive their citizens of their civil liberties and yet here we are.

You’re being asked to stay home, not in a cold, wet muddy trench.

Clearly it’s not as bad as going to war at the moment. But the implications are more long-term. How long are you happy for the government to tell you who you can hug, who you can have with you when giving birth or dying, who you can sleep with, where you can eat? These are massive, fundamental restrictions on our lives, they’re not minor.

@BluebellsGreenbells

Isle of Man locked down

The people pulled together. Home deliveries sprung up.

PPE was made by engineers and college students at home

At John’s ambulance did medical trips delivering prescriptions

Everyone from the start returning was made to isolate for 2 weeks. Returnees were limited to a few a week.

Only residents were allowed back

Jail terms were handed out to people not following the rules as were fines.

Total lock down was 3 months.

Schools are back no social distancing, no masks, workers are back shops and offices are open.

Hand sanitizer is still in force as is regular hand washing.

People can leave but must isolate in return - they are checked on and must have a permanent address or hotel/self contained accommodation.

It’s possible IF people stick to the rules - and they clearly aren’t.

It's possible IF done early enough to prevent the virus from becoming endemic. But notice there are zero examples of a country being able to achieve anything like this once the virus has already spread. Because sticking to the rules, even if they were always scientifically rigorous which they are not, only works so far. Stopping the virus from coming in and becoming endemic is one thing, stopping the spread once it is endemic and the schools and unis are open is quite another.

I am beyond depressed with all this . My relationship ended as no way of seeing each other ( back in his own country since March as the work over here ended due to Covid And likely won’t resume ) probably lose my job if it carries on as it is . Lonely , worried about money etc etc

Yes people have it worse than me For sure am lucky I don’t know anyone who died .

am sure there are many who are less effected ( I know people personally who have quite enjoyed it with their stable jobs and tons more family time ) anyway I digress the point is is that it’s shit but what else are we meant to do ? I also find it quite scary how fast our freedoms have been taken away , but what do I prove by ignoring all the rules n doing what I want ? I’d likely be fine if I got sick but what about the other people I could pass it to ? Do I want that on my conscience ? No. Should vulnerable people have to feel lonely and isolated because they darent go out because of other people flouting rules ? No

It’s gonna be a shit winter but Il try make the best of it and cross my fingers for 2021

And this tier smugness is not something Iv come across either ? My area is a 1 simply by its geographical location and spread out population

[quote gjejgej]@Bailey0703

Hahaha it's always "my brother-in-law's second cousin twice removed has long Covid! You're so ignorant!".

These repetitive anecdotes really grow tiresome.[/quote]
To nastily dismiss another person's experience whilst contributing nothing to a discussion other than expletives is making you look rather foolish.
Though it's gratifying to see your worst personal attacks have been deleted.

*Exactly.
Sadly we are too large a population for this to work here because the proportion of the self absorbed and selfish won't comply and the police won't be able to enforce in the number required.

Your other advantage is a community spirit on a small island. We need people to put a lot more effort into protecting their fellow neighbour, friend, colleague *.

Another person that’s swallowed all the government bullshit

We are where we are because we are having g a surge same as the rest of Europe

I work in critical care and if you saw what Covid can do then you’d realise the stupidity of your statement.

@wanderings

The thing is, a "crying wolf" effect has been built up by the government and the media in the last twenty years or more. We were told there would be total ruin from the Millennium Bug. Not long after that, we were going to die from using our mobile phones. Not long after that, Tony Blair spent billions (and countless civilian lives) on his illegal war, having assured us there were weapons of mass destruction.

And when there isn't some catastrophe such as these to scare the public about, the papers (and sometimes the government) tell us there are paedophiles waiting to pounce, immigrants are stealing our jobs, terrorists are lurking around every corner; the end of the world is always nigh. With all this, how do we know that what the government says is true? Remember that "graph of doom" that was projected for mid October, did it happen? They've as good as admitted they exaggerated the Covid death figures, calling it "miscalculating" or "a different way of counting".

If the government and the media weren't constantly catastrophising so many things, and lying all the time (hoping that the public will forget it), people might have more respect for measures such as this for when disaster really happens.

When it all comes out in months or years to come how much the government have lied about this (it will come out, even if the government try to bury it), people will then have much less respect for government restrictions in general. This is starting to happen already, albeit extremely slowly. Some people will be much less likely to take any pandemic seriously after this, because they will remember the lies and spin.

And if the government had the guts to say "we don't know how long this will last" instead of rubbish such as "we can turn this virus around in twelve weeks"; "normalish by Christmas"; "six more months"; (what is it going to be next March? "Just another year, pleeeeeeeeeeeeease be patient"), they might command a little more respect. People are fed up with being lied to.

I agree

We need some sort of strategy and endgame here and we don’t even have that. Restrictions can’t go on long term for a whole host of reasons. Plus it doesn’t even sound like the people that they are meant to protect get the treatment they need for Covid anyway. So what’s the point? It seems to me it’s largely to try and shore up an NHS not fit for purpose at the best of times. I get that numbers would be huge if no restrictions and even an amazingly funded NHS couldn’t cope but to be on their knees in some areas already only a few weeks into autumn is beyond ridiculous.

There has to come a point where we give up on restrictions virus or not because it is not sustainable longer term. They are destroying people’s livelihoods and quality of life.

Regarding the "mainstream media" comment...I recognise a few names on this thread from the Numbers/Graphs thread who might be willing to educate the:
Covid deniers
Long Covid deniers
Ageist posters
Mask refusers'
Posters who have a chip on their shoulder about those able to WFH

If you fit into the Venn intersection, there are lots of non-mainstream peer reviewed studies referenced on a daily basis.

You could probably move your fingers along the page and say the long words out loud if you don't understand them.

And I'll sell tickets for the rest of us to watch when they dismantle the utter rubbish+ fucking fucking fuck erudition being spouted in about six words.

*I work in critical care and if you saw what Covid can do then you’d realise the stupidity of your statement"
This and this again!

So tired of listening to peoplec whinge about their lack of liberty when they clearly have no idea what it is like to end up in ICU and long term compications.

If people who came out of it said that looking back, they'd ignore all prevention measures as they were not worth it despite the outcome for them, I might listen but those who live in fairy land thinking that it's just a little stay in hospital watching some TV and getting a rest, I have no sympathy for whatsoever.

To add to my previous post I do not blame NHS staff but Tory voters who have voted to have the NHS run into the ground.

We are where we are because we are having g a surge same as the rest of Europe

People spread the virus, it doesn’t speed by itself.

People should be asked where they got it from, because I’d hate to be the one to pass it on to grandma

So tired of listening to peoplec whinge about their lack of liberty when they clearly have no idea what it is like to end up in ICU and long term compications.

So the chance that I or someone else may get ill means I need to not care about or mention my liberty ever again? Erm, no. We all get ill. We all die. None of us can avoid those things. There will come a point, if there isn’t a working vaccine, where we just have to live with this.

Surely the two go hand in hand then. You would rather the beds aren't taken up by COVID-19 patients and cancer treatments continue so that person survives rather than an older person with COVID. Then follow the rules- you will help this to happen as you will help reduce the spread and help less people to take a bed up in hospital bed. You are contradicting yourself here. Can't you see the two go together.

@gjejgej

Actually, Blood clots (causing strokes, Pulmonary embolisms and in a few cases MI’s) is now a very well recognised feature of the post-Covid syndrome (aka “long Covid”). It is more common in those hospitalised but can happen to anyone. We have patients who are having real problems with their lungs- some concern that the changes we are seeing may turn out to be the start of pulmonary fibrosis (a condition which is life-limiting) caused by this virus. Pericarditis and other inflammatory conditions are common (though this is not exclusive to Covid and can be triggered by other viruses too- but does appear to be more common post-Covid). The risk is not just that you’ll become ill with the initial infection- you may be seriously unwell, quite unwell, experience a mild cold or have no symptoms at all. Unfortunately, long-Covid can occur in those who were not severely unwell (though rarely in very mild or asymptomatic cases)- the affects of the post-infection syndrome could leave you profoundly unwell (possibly permanently).

For those who just want to do as they see fit I would say that the issue is you are not just running the risks for yourself. You may be willing to risk catching Covid and keep your fingers crossed that if you do get it, you’ll have a mild case with no lost-Covid syndrome. You may even be willing to risk passing it on to your family and friends and hope they will also be fine. However, at least they can chose to have contact or not, based on knowing what you are doing/not doing. What about those who have to be in contact with people due to their work- are you also happy to put these people who don’t have the option to avoid you?

I’m amazed at all the posters on this thread who say ‘lockdowns don’t work’ followed by how they didn’t keep to the rules of the lockdown. Honestly the lack of critical thinking here is ridiculous.

@BluebellsGreenbells

We are where we are because we are having g a surge same as the rest of Europe

People spread the virus, it doesn’t speed by itself.

People should be asked where they got it from, because I’d hate to be the one to pass it on to grandma

It has spread due to things opening up including schools. But do carry on believing the government bullshit as it lets them off the hook.

Yeah, this is what the government would like everyone to believe so nobody notices how badly they've fucked it and holds them to account.

IAintentDead

You're post facts aren't you.

A study of over 80 000 people really has shown that the drop in IQ (even for those who were mostly ill) is large enough for them to be aware of increased difficulties in daily life.

The vaccine has been shown to produce a good result in the elderly, big story today.

I think I'm less scared than you. I'm less scared of the present circumstances, more positive about the way out, more able to assess the data. Think about the facts.

Lockdown was imposed because Macron threatened to refuse to let the British into France unless Boris out the nation in lockdown. I think the Rspublic of Ireland said the same thing.

Cummings was nothing to do with it.

So the chance that I or someone else may get ill means I need to not care about or mention my liberty ever again? Erm, no. We all get ill. We all die. None of us can avoid those things
Maybe I won't bother wearing my glasses when I drive because I don't like to be told what to do. If I crash and kill someone, oh well, crashes happen, we all die. It's ok not to wear my glasses because I don't like how I look with them.

The glasses analogy is preposterous.

I don’t think it’s as simple as ‘liberties vs lives of others’. People accept infringements on their liberty for the good of others all the time without complaint. For example, I imagine 99.99% of us accept that we shouldn’t have the freedom to drink and drive - because there’s incontrovertible, indisputable evidence that it poses an unacceptable risk to other road users. And there’s no downside to banning drink drinking. Depriving you of the freedom to drink drive harms you in no way - it does nothing but deprive you of the freedom to drive after drinking.

But I think the reason people struggle with the Covid restrictions is that they do restrict some very fundamental liberties - basic rights we agreed in the wake of the horrors of WW2 that every human being should be entitled to, such as the right to liberty, the right to a private life, the freedom of assembly and association, and the right to education. And there isn’t clear, incontrovertible evidence a) that the restrictions work, or b) that they don’t cause more harm than they prevent.

I don’t know the answers. But it’s certainly not simple.

(Of course if we wanted to prevent road deaths altogether, we would ban road travel altogether, but that’s a clear example of a restriction that would cause more harm than it would prevent).

@ArcheryAnnie

I didn't expect everyone else to bow down to my oh-so-superior illness, though.

etopp the difference between you and me is that we've both been through really horrible illnesses, while working and parenting, but I am the one of the two of us who is eager that other people don't experience what we suffered.

You seem almost gleeful that they might.

No, of course I don't want other people to experience awful illness.

However, if I could personally take another dose of shitty, horrible illness in return for having my job and life back, and for my teenagers to be able to have their normal school and university experiences, I'd take it like a shot. In fact, I'd take it if it killed me, for other people - and particularly young people - to be able to live their lives without fear and restrictions.