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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think I'd rather take my chances with the virus...

465 replies

User3billion · 26/10/2020 18:07

...than give up any more freedom?!

I'm in a tier 3 area and I'm so done. I'm sick of people in tier 1 areas preaching on social media about what we should and shouldn't be doing (especially given it can vary from one tier 3 area to the next). I'm sick of feeling like a prisoner in my own home. I'm sick of not being able to trust a single thing our government says.

I don't understand how we've got to a point in the UK, in 2020, where it's ILLEGAL to visit family we don't live with. And what's worse is that people are happy to go along with this! It's all kinds of wrong.

We deride other countries that deprive their citizens of their civil liberties and yet here we are.

OP posts:
gjejgej · 26/10/2020 23:05

@megletthesecond

They're not just your risks to take though.

Personally I don't want the NHS full to the brim with covid patients again, they need capacity to treat regular illnesses.
Knuckle down and we should be ok in the spring, and nearer a vaccine and better treatments.

@megletthesecond

Hahaha we were supposed to "knuckle down" in April/May to flatten the curve, and it would all be over by the Summer.

Stop kidding yourself...April will come around, there will be no vaccine and people such as yourself will still be telling us to "keep calm, it will all be over by 2022!".

Inkpaperstars · 26/10/2020 23:06

Part of my brother in laws Long Covid symptoms is multiple blood clots . He has had 3 strokes since April. It's a syndrome called sticky blood and by no means 'standard post viral fatigue'

I am so sorry to hear about your brother in law @Bailey0703.

Covid is unlike anything ever seen when it comes to blood clotting, as the article I link below mentions people who have worked for decades in haematology have never seen levels like it in any condition.

As for the mischaracterisation of your words, it's notable that even if their primary 'arguments' didn't show them up enough, the way some posters respond tells us all we need to know about their credibility and thought processes. Or the lack of them.

I myself regret being a bit short with some of them Grin, it isn't personal and I don't mean to be so rude, but it is hard to be endlessly patient with their rudeness.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/52760992

Backtoblack1 · 26/10/2020 23:09

Agree with the OP. In total lockdown here in Wales. Am going back to work next week with 200 11 and 12 year olds.

Like hell am I not seeing my family.

whatkatydid2013 · 26/10/2020 23:10

People being fed up is to be expected. The rules may make sense at a total population level (I'm sure that’s debatable) but on a personal level they seem crazy. As an example we are in tier 2 currently. We are sticking to the rules and within them have my parents providing a childcare bubble one evening a week to pick kids up from school and either take them to the beach all wrapped up or play with them in our living room while we work. My parents are in the process of planning an extension so have had various people linked to that visit their home & they go out and do shopping in person but they do all the expected face/space/hand washing bit. OH and I work from home, have everything delivered and basically walk to/from
School with kids or go to national trust places/the beach and wander about with the kids at the weekend. We are not allowed to have my parents join us for Christmas dinner within the rules. Considering the two households as a unit then realistically our big risk of covid transmission is that the children get it at school and we or my parents catch it from them. It’s not impossible it could come from elsewhere but it’s far, far less likely. By the time we get to Christmas Day the kids will have been off school a full week and spent all that time seeing no one but OH and I. If my parents come for lunch at Christmas the risk of us unknowingly passing on Covid to them is surely lower than any of the days they provide childcare as realistically it’s likely that we will have found out by a week into the holidays if there is an outbreak at school. Lots of people are in a similar position and honestly I find it hard to accept its particularly more risk to either us or the general population for them to come for dinner that week. I generally don’t believe there would be any measurable increase in risk to them or the general population if they came half an hour early one day and I took a break and had a coffee with them in our 4 x 5 m living room with the window open. That’s not allowed either though because the childcare bubble is only for childcare and nothing else. People are really sarcastic and unpleasant about the concept of people making their own risk assessments but in reality there are things you can do within the rules that are obviously more risky than things you can’t. As a few examples more risky than me having that coffee with my parents I could go to an indoor business meeting with half a dozen colleagues from different households, I could eat inside a restaurant without a mask on at lunchtime with my husband while many other people from many other households do the same. I could travel abroad on holiday or to another part of the country on holiday. I’m not doing any of those things but I really would like to be able to sit in my living room rather than in the garden to see my parents and to have them over for Christmas dinner. I really feel like while everyone should reduce their overall contact with others it should be possible for individuals to make choices about where/how to spend their social contact budget. Some people don’t want to go out anywhere but want to see family. Some people would prefer to go to pubs/restaurants, get hair cuts and beauty treatments, go on Holiday etc. I’m still unclear on why people couldn’t be allowed a choice as to what they do provided they don’t just do everything

tearstainedbakes · 26/10/2020 23:10

I'd suggest that you sign up for some of the many support groups for people who are struggling with ongoing life changing and sometimes life threatening issues linked to covid if you don't believe the mainstream media. Those posts are unedited first hand experience, people who think they're going mad because of how they're feeling and finding that actually they're not alone, because some of those weird symptoms that no one is reporting on are shared by loads of other people.

But frankly when you choose a lense of paranoia to look at the world through you will interpret anything to fit your view. Its just a real shame that the victims of this illness aren't only the people who choose to ignore the facts because they prefer to sound edgy.

In fact, don't sign up for those groups, it's bad enough to have shite like this spouted on a generic site, it really shouldn't spill over into support groups.

Inkpaperstars · 26/10/2020 23:11

That's the best you've got? An old BBC article about some bloke who had blood clots and some experts who are "conducting studies"?

If that's all it takes to convince you that we should lock our country down to stop people getting "Long Covid" then I have some magic beans to sell you.

Perhaps you truly believe everything you read/see from the BBC; indeed that would explain your fear of the virus.

Try to view articles from the mainstream media through the lense of "they are trying to scare me" - things may become somewhat clearer then.

If the situation wasn't so serious, in fact even though it is, I laughed at loud at this display of delusion, ignorance and twisted thinking. Someone has been sold some magic beans for sure, and it isn't Bailey. As for believing the BBC, I don't have to, I have heard it directly from the doctors who....and you'll have to forgive me for this as it will seem quite inexplicable to you @gjejgej....I do believe. Especially over you.

Pinkyxx · 26/10/2020 23:13

@BluebellsGreenbells

Isle of Man locked down

The people pulled together. Home deliveries sprung up.

PPE was made by engineers and college students at home

At John’s ambulance did medical trips delivering prescriptions

Everyone from the start returning was made to isolate for 2 weeks. Returnees were limited to a few a week.

Only residents were allowed back

Jail terms were handed out to people not following the rules as were fines.

Total lock down was 3 months.

Schools are back no social distancing, no masks, workers are back shops and offices are open.

Hand sanitizer is still in force as is regular hand washing.

People can leave but must isolate in return - they are checked on and must have a permanent address or hotel/self contained accommodation.

It’s possible IF people stick to the rules - and they clearly aren’t.

You're right there is ample evidence this approach works. Other countries where people have taken a similar attitude are living under far less constraint than we are in the UK. Judging by the very polarized views on this thread, I suspect we'll be grappling with Covid for a significantly longer time than many.

The facts are out there, but few appear willing to even read them.

The Spanish flu was +/- as contagious as Covid and +/- as deadly. Similar containment strategies as being used today were implemented, but unevenly ( it was war time) but offers a helpful comparison to people not complying today albeit for very different reasons.

The Spanish Flu pandemic lasted 2-3 years, infected 500 million (1/3 of the world population) and killed 50 million.

www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html

megletthesecond · 26/10/2020 23:13

gje the spring lockdown was never going to solve it permanently. Maybe you are naive enough to think it would. I always knew we'd be back here over winter.

echt · 26/10/2020 23:14

Hahaha we were supposed to "knuckle down" in April/May to flatten the curve, and it would all be over by the Summer

Who said that? Not even the pea-brained government.

Stop kidding yourself...April will come around, there will be no vaccine and people such as yourself will still be telling us to "keep calm, it will all be over by 2022!"

The poster didn't say that, yes it will come round, and yes, you will have to knuckle down. Again.

Where I am is just coming out of 15 weeks lockdown and while we're all grateful, we're under no illusions that this is over or that there won't be future sacrifices required.

SheepandCow · 26/10/2020 23:16

I'm also sorry about your BIL @Bailey0703
I do hope the new Long Covid treatment clinics will be able to help.

A PP mentioned heart attacks being recorded as Covid. That's probably because it can cause heart attacks.

I myself regret being a bit short with some of them Grin, it isn't personal and I don't mean to be so rude, but it is hard to be endlessly patient with their rudeness
I feel the same. I'm guilty of losing patience, and I think from now onwards I'd rather refrain from replying and instead wear one of these masks when I read some of the posts (unfortunately they're sold out).

spaceaustralia.com.au/products/arse-face-mask

etopp · 26/10/2020 23:18

Everything that @gjejgej says is right. I wish it weren't, but it is.

The gullibility and lack of critical thinking of the general public is astounding.

Bailey0703 · 26/10/2020 23:19

gjejgej no I don't need to 'believe' anything. I saw my BIL last Thursday. Using a Zimmer frame as he learns to walk again. Aged 59.

I have lost a 42 year old neighbour with 2 kids under 10. A work colleague aged 51 a single mum with an 18 year old child.

My mother is also in hospital with Covid since last week.. on oxygen since last Friday. Aged 77.

You are obviously very scared and have found denial to be a safer place. I think you would find some trauma counselling more helpful than talking nonsense on the web. Stay safe Thanks

Bailey0703 · 26/10/2020 23:22

@etopp

Everything that *@gjejgej* says is right. I wish it weren't, but it is.

The gullibility and lack of critical thinking of the general public is astounding.

Ok I'll bite .. come on then with your 'critical thinking ' where are you going to put the normal flu/respiratory illness patients in November to Feb with the beds full off Covid patients .. ?
IAintentDead · 26/10/2020 23:25

@08689326gno

Too many people are being hit with delayed cancer diagnosis and or treatment, too many people dying of other conditions because they're either scared to get help or the local NHS is not functioning for anything but Covid.

How can people say this? High rates of covid infection will cause other services to shut down. Isn't it terribly obvious that this is the case? Or is it that you would like the inevitably high numbers of people getting covid (in a world where people 'get on with their lives') aren't actually treated.

It's a virus, a serious virus but one that most people, even vulnerable ones, recover from.

We don't have a great deal of data on that yet. The long-term effects are looking horrific for some (front of the Times today (not the DM) - Covid may cause the brain to age 10 years. That's a big story for a national paper to run with and there will be some reputable evidence.

There is no way back whilst people are still so scared and I'm not sure how we get past that.

You seem to have a lot of information about how it's fine to get covid and not much about the many vaccines, some of which will probably be released soon. It's not a guarantee but I don't know any scientists who would call it unlikely at this point. So why erase this from the narrative? Because it would lend weight to the idea of waiting it out?

OK so you're scared - I get it, that was the government aim.

People can only die once and whilst dying of Covid is sad, I'd rather lose my 80+ relative to Covid than see a young parent die of cancer

Oohhh Long Covid - yes it fucking horrible for those that get it - just like the people who have post viral syndrome from every other virus that is around. Have you seen the number of people that have it. Especially teenagers from glandular fever, (also known as Mononucleosis or Epstein-Barr) look up those stats.

Vaccines - yeah - except they don't work well in the elderly and won't be available to most people (only elderly and vulnerable [I'll get it, will you?]). And if you think you will - just remember, we've already run out of flu virus vaccine this year - you know, the readily available one, that doesn't really work well on the elderly anyway and is only available to specific groups of people - despite being mass produced, readily available and known about for years.

SheepandCow · 26/10/2020 23:29

The Oxford vaccine has prompted strong response in the elderly. It was in the news earlier.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/26/oxford-covid-vaccine-produces-strong-immune-response-among-elderly/amp/

m0therofdragons · 26/10/2020 23:30

We watched 1917 the film last night. Seeing the men in the trenches really put this in perspective. Can’t visit family but we can FaceTime them (many families live this way normally). You’re being asked to stay home, not in a cold, wet muddy trench. The government doesn’t want to inflict this on us but if we don’t we’ll be forcing doctors to decide who lives and dies when there aren’t enough ventilators. It’s not about your actions impacting on you, it’s how they’ll impact on others.

Bailey0703 · 26/10/2020 23:40

@m0therofdragons

We watched 1917 the film last night. Seeing the men in the trenches really put this in perspective. Can’t visit family but we can FaceTime them (many families live this way normally). You’re being asked to stay home, not in a cold, wet muddy trench. The government doesn’t want to inflict this on us but if we don’t we’ll be forcing doctors to decide who lives and dies when there aren’t enough ventilators. It’s not about your actions impacting on you, it’s how they’ll impact on others.
Thanks for a sane and thoughtful post.. for a moment I thought reality had disappeared down a rabbit hole.
starfro · 26/10/2020 23:41

Clearly public opinion is shifting. Lockdown was only imposed initially (against SAGEs advice), because Cummings knew it was so popular.

I think the majority are against it now and are willing to do the sensible stuff like hand washing, but just want to get on with life.

Inkpaperstars · 26/10/2020 23:46

People can only die once and whilst dying of Covid is sad, I'd rather lose my 80+ relative to Covid than see a young parent die of cancer

That you think those are your alternatives is baffling. Letting covid spread isn't going to help with cancer treatment.

I agree about the trenches. People keep complaining and saying we shouldn't compare this to the wars. But they are worried about their children missing out on educational and work opportunity. My great grandmother had to suffer her beautiful 21 year old being killed in the trench warfare of WW1 and other young sons returning with life changing injuries.

I am sorry to hear your family has been so badly affected Bailey and I hope your mum improves soon.

I like the masks Sheep, I think wearing them while reading would be a good response!

SheepandCow · 26/10/2020 23:47

There are times when a good leader needs to be strong enough to take decisions that are right for the country but not necessarily popular.

A good leader also takes heed of advice from medical and scientific experts (and actually longsighted economic ones too). They have the expertise, knowledge, and experience the general public does not.

In any case outside of Mumsnet most polls show majority public support for containment measures. I suspect, however, the preference is for effective and coherent ones.

Coyoacan · 27/10/2020 00:02

@AntiHop, you shouldn't speak to a stranger like that when you don't know about their individual circumstances. Some people are having serious problems with their mental health because of this situation and that is also important.

ArcheryAnnie · 27/10/2020 00:04

I didn't expect everyone else to bow down to my oh-so-superior illness, though.

etopp the difference between you and me is that we've both been through really horrible illnesses, while working and parenting, but I am the one of the two of us who is eager that other people don't experience what we suffered.

You seem almost gleeful that they might.

ArcheryAnnie · 27/10/2020 00:08

Oohhh Long Covid - yes it fucking horrible for those that get it - just like the people who have post viral syndrome from every other virus that is around. Have you seen the number of people that have it. Especially teenagers from glandular fever, (also known as Mononucleosis or Epstein-Barr) look up those stats.

IAintentDead I had glandular fever as a teenager (and was ill for a long time). I now have Long Covid. And I can tell you that Long Covid is a hell of a lot worse. And at least I knew the likely path of glandular fever - those of us with Long Covid really don't know what's going to happen with us in the future.

Sallydimebar · 27/10/2020 00:37

I can’t get my head round why people think just because we’re not using the nightingales it’s not as bad as there saying 🤨 will you be convinced when they start filling up . When people are being turned away from a&e because all the doctors are at the nightingale s, Is that the stage you want us to get to? A family member of mine was involved in the set up of nightingale in GM and said they really are a last resort . The government haven’t always got it right but they didn’t create this virus. It’s rubbish for everyone but luckily most are complying at the moment I’m safe in the knowledge if a family member needs emergency treatment for other then COVID they will get it as these restrictions are making sure the nhs is not overwhelmed . Whether you agree or not it’s for the greater good that we all stick together and comply . Keep up With the social distance and get the R rate down .

wanderings · 27/10/2020 06:27

The thing is, a "crying wolf" effect has been built up by the government and the media in the last twenty years or more. We were told there would be total ruin from the Millennium Bug. Not long after that, we were going to die from using our mobile phones. Not long after that, Tony Blair spent billions (and countless civilian lives) on his illegal war, having assured us there were weapons of mass destruction.

And when there isn't some catastrophe such as these to scare the public about, the papers (and sometimes the government) tell us there are paedophiles waiting to pounce, immigrants are stealing our jobs, terrorists are lurking around every corner; the end of the world is always nigh. With all this, how do we know that what the government says is true? Remember that "graph of doom" that was projected for mid October, did it happen? They've as good as admitted they exaggerated the Covid death figures, calling it "miscalculating" or "a different way of counting".

If the government and the media weren't constantly catastrophising so many things, and lying all the time (hoping that the public will forget it), people might have more respect for measures such as this for when disaster really happens.

When it all comes out in months or years to come how much the government have lied about this (it will come out, even if the government try to bury it), people will then have much less respect for government restrictions in general. This is starting to happen already, albeit extremely slowly. Some people will be much less likely to take any pandemic seriously after this, because they will remember the lies and spin.

And if the government had the guts to say "we don't know how long this will last" instead of rubbish such as "we can turn this virus around in twelve weeks"; "normalish by Christmas"; "six more months"; (what is it going to be next March? "Just another year, pleeeeeeeeeeeeease be patient"), they might command a little more respect. People are fed up with being lied to.