AIBU to think I'd rather take my chances with the virus...

[User3billion]

...than give up any more freedom?!

I'm in a tier 3 area and I'm so done. I'm sick of people in tier 1 areas preaching on social media about what we should and shouldn't be doing (especially given it can vary from one tier 3 area to the next). I'm sick of feeling like a prisoner in my own home. I'm sick of not being able to trust a single thing our government says.

I don't understand how we've got to a point in the UK, in 2020, where it's ILLEGAL to visit family we don't live with. And what's worse is that people are happy to go along with this! It's all kinds of wrong.

We deride other countries that deprive their citizens of their civil liberties and yet here we are.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss my point is, it makes no difference if cancer isn’t diagnosed because the NHS is overwhelmed by Covid cases or if it’s just not seeing anyone because of Covid. Cancer doesn’t give a fuck, and dead is dead. So don’t make out that the consequences of ignoring lockdown are that the NHS won’t be there if you need it. It’s not there anyway.

[quote Eckhart]@etopp

At what point do you imagine we won't be in this cycle of lockdowns, then

I don't know, I can't see into the future. OP was questioning proof, and I was stating it.

What does 'typing into thin air' mean?[/quote]
"typing into thin air" means (given that I'm the one who said it) that Mumsnet assumes an air of importance which it doesn't actually possess.

@User3billion thanks. I’m sorry about your dad, too. I hope his prognosis is good xx

We are only human, and.if you put some humans in v stressful unnatural situations

Yes, and suffering with a COVID is a stressful unnatural situation. It's a highly infectious illness which, we KNOW will spread if left unchecked. The restrictions aren't supposed to make everything perfect again - we've essentially got a seatbelt on whilst crashing, at the moment. There are horrible implications in many ways, but it's still better than the alternative.

Has nobody on here, ever, suffered from post-viral fatigue, illness, etc, after seasonal flu?

etopp yes, of course - but Long Covid encompasses far more than that. Not that much is known about how far it goes, but it's a whole-body disease and can include brain damage, heart disease, and a great many other very serious complications, AS WELL AS post-viral fatigue.

But if you have specialist knowledge that the world's doctors don't yet know about, I expect the World Heath Organisation would be glad of your insight.

@etopp

"typing into thin air" means (given that I'm the one who said it) that Mumsnet assumes an air of importance which it doesn't actually possess

Which PP do you think is 'Mumsnet'?

I thought Mumsnet was a bunch of strangers making comments about stuff. I didn't know it had the capacity to make assumptions. Perhaps you're projecting.

@Theonewiththecandles

I'm okay taking my chances, I'd probably survive though I am high risk.

But it's not for me to decide to take chances with other people's lives.

E X A C T L Y

@Eckhart

We are only human, and.if you put some humans in v stressful unnatural situations

Yes, and suffering with a COVID is a stressful unnatural situation. It's a highly infectious illness which, we KNOW will spread if left unchecked. The restrictions aren't supposed to make everything perfect again - we've essentially got a seatbelt on whilst crashing, at the moment. There are horrible implications in many ways, but it's still better than the alternative.

@Eckhart

Your belief the restrictions have any impact is quite cute...

Government vs forces of nature...who wins?

You can't "check" an endemic virus.

@ArcheryAnnie

But if you have specialist knowledge that the world's doctors don't yet know about, I expect the World Heath Organisation would be glad of your insight

Yes, Etopp is the only person here who isn't talking into thin air, and actually has something valuable to say.

It’s not just about you. That is the whole point.

@gjejgej

Your belief the restrictions have any impact is quite cute

Government vs forces of nature...who wins

I don't know who wins, but being that patronising makes you look like a right prat.

Dismissing Long Covid as post-viral fatigue isn't particularly valuable. It's pretty fatuous and ill-informed.

Cheers for that @FangsForTheMemory I wouldn't have known if you hadn't pointed it out over 10 pages later. 🙄

We don’t live in hermetically sealed environment,we interact & cross contaminate. Not adhering to public health advice increases transmission
An individual behaviour choice impacts upon many inc immunosuppressed + vulnerable. So whilst you may be ok,others are not
We have a shared and mutual responsibility to each other to moderate and adapt behaviour

@gjejgej

You can't "check" an endemic virus

Why did the COVID cases fall dramatically during lockdown?

Stay indoors if you are that bothered about catching it. Life is for living

What about people who do stay indoors but are potentially ill with other things, like my daughter who could suddenly need brain surgery and an ITU bed at any time, but might not have access because they’re full of selfish cunts who have been getting on with their lives? She’s not clinically vulnerable, she’s a healthy young woman who happens to have a condition which doesn’t affect her at all until it does.

Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

@SheepandCow

The false narrative that it's the wealthy who want to contain Covid has been repeatedly shown up as insulting (to the poor) rubbish.

Why insulting? Because it's the poor who suffer the most from uncontained Covid. It's they who bear the brunt.

Perhaps this is why it's actually the short-sighted greed of some of the richest who want to see no restrictions. They can afford the risks.

They fail to see beyond next week - but that's ok (for them) because they more than anyone else can insulate from the physical risks. Safe in their rural or shire home away from densely populated areas, and the economic consequences - they have enough savings and assets and investments to see them through.

Meanwhile the frontline healthcare workers, social carers, transport workers, delivery drivers are the ones facing all the risks - including PTSD from the extreme pressures and distressing work days.

Hospitality workers too. The failure to contain affects them. Unlike in countries who took effective containment measures. These countries now have everything open as normal. No staff off sick, no deaths, no customers off sick or dead or bereaved, no job losses.

Absolutely. Conveniently ignored by many on here

A lot of assumptions too. I am not in favour of letting the virus run riot, what measures exactly we should use to try and contain I am not qualified to say. But maybe lockdown or one flavour or another will be part of it. I say that as someone who is out of work and renting a small flat with outside space, DP's job is under threat too.

The job losses may hit certain jobs first but they are coming for everyone anyway.

We all have a strong emotional desire not to be dealing with these problems and to not need the restrictions. Some people can't seem to intellectually confront reality and balance that with their emotions when forming opinions. They just try to ignore enough of the wider picture to be able to wrangle their opinion into fitting their emotions.

Since you are still here OP, can I just say...

It's not just about you.

Should say with no outside space, obviously.

@MyPersona

Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins

I've never heard this phrase before but it's brilliant! Relevant to lots of the selfish members of society during the restrictions.

It's true they don't report flu deaths. So I will.

Respiratory deaths are down on the five year average this week as we usually lose 178 a day at this time of year, 71 of which would be flu deaths.

ICU occupancy is down in Manchester on what it was last year too.

Source: england.nhs.uk, Office of national statistics

@Goosefoot

I've found it interesting, and a little disturbing, to see how readily people have been willing to give up the basic bedrocks of liberal democracies, like freedom of association, and freedom of movement. And to do so without any kind of real timeline or exit strategy being discussed.

I don't think there is a clear right answer to the problem. But what is being asked of people is quite significant, with no real clear idea of how effective it is really likely to be. The dismissal of people who think it's problematic, or even just asking the question, is a bit shocking.

💯 this.

@Idontbelieveit12

I know of a 19 year old with no underlying conditions on a ventilator.

Ok, so I don't doubt this at all. But isn't the point that it's really uncommon for that to happen? For children for example, yes, there have been some badly affected, and yet the experts seem clear that for children, their chances of a bad outcome like that are a good deal worse for flu than for covid. And it wasn't that long ago that flu shots were unusual but people didn't flip out about kids getting the flu.

@MyPersona

Stay indoors if you are that bothered about catching it. Life is for living

What about people who do stay indoors but are potentially ill with other things, like my daughter who could suddenly need brain surgery and an ITU bed at any time, but might not have access because they’re full of selfish cunts who have been getting on with their lives? She’s not clinically vulnerable, she’s a healthy young woman who happens to have a condition which doesn’t affect her at all until it does.

Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

This is exactly it. Thank you for putting it so succinctly, MyPersona.

(And all good wishes to your daughter, and I hope she stays well.)

What the fucking point of bleating “Oh, the NHS will shut down if we don’t stay home!” when it’s fucking useless anyway because of the lockdown? Either way, the NHS isn’t working for anything except covid cases.

No, you really have to engage at a higher level than that. Saying 'we're fucked either way' is not a good reason to go and do what you like. Many services were open during the lockdown and the NHS were getting the message out that they were 'open for business' frequently. They are also still open for business BUT are less open than they were before the recent spike in covid infections and this will only get worse if infections keep going up. This is simply the case. The NHS cares deeply about cancer rates etc and keeping infection rates down is absolutely part of the plan to address these issues. As is persuading people to come in and get checked, and recognise the signs of strokes etc and react as normal. They are powerless to change a situation where every ambulance is on a covid call.

So please engage your brain.