Crash! Boom! Bang! - Car accident, who's at fault?

[NothingOnButTheRadio]

Had a car accident earlier. Wondering what your thoughts are.

Car A had slowed down to turn into the first road on the right and was indicating.

Car B was turning left .

Not unusual to have a steady stream of traffic (lights further up the road.

Car A began turning. Car B ploughed into the side of Car A. Both drivers accusing the other. Both vehicles I'd think are write-offs.

Obligatory drawing - yes, I'm shit at drawing!

Car A

It's hard to say. I'd have thought B would have had to whip around the corner without stopping to cause that much damage? In which case I'd say it was quite possible A was turning before B. If it's just the weight of the van that's caused it, then it could be that A turned in front of B. Unless the damage is really obviously at the front or back, I'm not sure you'd be able to know.

Hope you're on the mend soon OP.

I think these junctions are more common than people think. At the one I know, the "convention" would be that B would pull out and then let A across in front of them. Which isn't correct according to the Highway Code, but it's the only way to stop traffic building up for miles in both directions.

I used to work for an insurance company and I’m certain Car B’s insurer would argue as others have that Car A was turning across their path. For Car B to have hit car A, in the side, they had to have already joined the main road before Car A actually turned in to the road on the right, otherwise they may have just clipped the back end if they both made their turns at the same time. This is why dash cams are necessary. There is no room for arguments as to who was at fault or if 50/50.

Just to clarify — in my case, people wouldn't let them across if the traffic was moving quickly, but it tends to be nose to tail. Often "B's" only chance to pull out is because somebody is turning into that road he's on.

There weren't so many cars when the second road was build in the 50s!

I would say Car B was at fault.

I’ve always been under the impression that you would treat a side road in the same way you would treat a junction, and therefore you are supposed to give way to any oncoming traffic from either direction. Which means any car turning into that road has right of way.

So with that in mind, Car B is supposed to wait until it is clear from both directions before pulling out of the junction/side road.

Out of interest, was there a give way sign at the end of the road he was pulling out of? If there was, then he is definitely at fault. But I’m guessing if it’s a bog standard side road, it wouldn’t have any signs, but worth checking just in case!

@browneyes77, OP wasn't turning into the road with the van. She says that in her first post.

The car on the major road has priority- which in this case is car A.

Car b was going from minor road to major road so didn’t have priority.

Not if car A is turning across a vehicle which was already established on the major road before it turns. You don't have right of way when you cross over a carriageway in the way OP did.

[quote NoWordForFluffy]@browneyes77, OP wasn't turning into the road with the van. She says that in her first post.[/quote]
It doesn’t matter whether she’d physically started turning or not, you should always wait until the coast is clear from both directions before turning into a main road from a side road/junction.

HOWEVER - After re-reading your posts @NothingOnButTheRadio, if Car B was turning left, how on earth did he manage to hit you if you, according to your diagram, weren’t even turning near him at that point?

He’d have either had to wildly swing out of the road and into your path as you turned, or you were cutting across him as he turned?

It doesn’t matter whether she’d physically started turning or not, you should always wait until the coast is clear from both directions before turning into a main road from a side road/junction.

No, you misunderstand. She wasn't ever turning into that road. She was turning into the road before him. And seemingly cut across his path.

@Dragonsmother

The car on the major road has priority- which in this case is car A.

Car b was going from minor road to major road so didn’t have priority.

No, because in this case, car A is crossing a lane of traffic. They're not just going onto a side road, they have to cross oncoming traffic to perform their manoeuvre.

Car B we can assume had give way lines in front of them and therefore should remain in side road until they have a clear path to pull out. Car A has right of way on the major road.
Car B is at fault.

I can’t tell whether those saying B is at fault have misunderstood the OP’s account or don’t know the rules of the road (or both).

@NoWordForFluffy

I am confused about the "trickling forward" idea. I'm in the US, and here Car A would stop and wait for the road to be clear before making that turn. What happens if one "trickles forward" and doesn't get the all clear before they reach the point that they either have to turn or miss the turn? Do you stop, or do you just start the turn and hope for the best?

You're not the only one confused by the trickling! I have no idea what it entails. The OP should've stopped and then turned when safe. Prioritising saving pennies worth of fuel by 'trickling' above personal safety is slightly bonkers!

The trickling comment and the not indicating accusation about Car B make me think the OP chanced it and thats why they were hit. I was taught to fully stop, engage handbrake and only pull across when absolutely certain it was clear. To trickle and pull across when the intention of the other driver wasnt clear and 3m away is foolish. I think driver B looked, saw OP waiting to turn, completed his turn onto the road, accelerated and A pulled across him He didnt indicate is neither here nor there, you wait to see what the other drivers intention is.

I suppose if it comes to an insurance claim car A would be at fault for pulling across a main carriageway. If they were hit full in the side then Car B was fully on the carriageway. if they were clipped at the back then Car B didn't exercise due care and attention.

Maybe the trickling forward confused car B because he thought she was turning into his road.

If they were both going for the same gap in traffic then that gap would have reached car B first so it's likely that he left his junction a fraction before Car A. But it's likely that they were moving to complete their manoeuvres almost simultaneously as the roads are so close together.

I hope the OP comes back to update us on what the insurance companies say.

Car B is at fault. Car A had right of way.

She'll need to do a better drawing for the insurance company!

If it was as busy as she's suggested, surely there will be witnesses?

But it isn’t a straightforward case. If they’d both have been turning into and from the same road m, I.e. the one that car B is turning out of, then yes it’s A’s right of way. However, for car B to have hit the side of car A then they had to have turned in front of car B. Once car B is on the main road, they then have right of way over car A who had to have turned in front of car B. Of course car B could have pulled out of the side road at speed so then car A if they have witnesses could argue this was the case and may get a 50/50 agreement. Not that it helps car A at all. It’s a very fine line, it’s not as clear cut as Car A had right of way over B, because once B turned on to the main road, it’s their right of way.

I once was turning like this from a side road on to a main road but the opposite direction. As I went to turn right some cars were obscuring my view so I crept out slightly to get a better view. As I went to turn out, a car sped towards me and smashed in to my front end. A newly ‘passed his test’ 17 year old driver, who was speeding, outside a school. Luckily for me, the police attended and measured the skid marks and he had been doing approx 42 mph upon impact. Therefore he was at fault and that’s how the insurance companies ruled it too. If the police had not attended that day I am certain his insurance would have straight up said it was my fault. It’s not always clear cut and circumstances to matter.

Car B definitely at fault. Exactly the same accident happened to me this time last year, I was your Car A and my car was written off despite it being an accident at less than 20 miles an hour. The person that hit me didn’t contest it. I was hit on the side and had bad whiplash but it sorted itself out after about 4 months thankfully - good luck with the claim.

car B is at fault.

Car B at fault

From an insurers point of view, I'd expect that to go 50/50. However with the caveat that seeing the actual junction would possibly make a difference to that assessment, and that dash cam footage would nearly always clear it up.

But it isn’t a straightforward case. If they’d both have been turning into and from the same road m, I.e. the one that car B is turning out of, then yes it’s A’s right of way

If they'd been turning into and out of the same road they wouldn't have hit each other at all as long as they weren't cutting the corner and were staying on their respective sides of their curves into, and out of, the side road.

Car B....

Car B.

DH had the exact same accident as car A last week except that he was slowing for a cyclist ahead.

Car B from a side road drove straight into him and the driver's door is completely caved in.

Car B's insurance haven't even tried to challenge that their driver was at fault.