To think buying a puppy is far more sensible for most people than rehoming a dog

[rainyoutside]

I’m a big advocate of animal welfare but AIBU to be concerned at posters who relentlessly push people considering having a dog towards rescue?

For one thing I don’t even know any rescue centres who will rehome to families with young children. But mn insist that they do.

Greyhounds are often pushed on here as an ideal first dog. They are absolutely huge. We would need a new car if we adopted a greyhound. Then it’s insisted they don’t have a strong prey drive. Er - they were bred for hare coursing. I’m sure there are some exceptions, just like there are some Labs who hate water and some stupid border collies, but it’s in the breed descriptor.

Looking on the dogs trust website, out of hundreds of dogs available for rehoming there are nine who can live with primary aged children. Add cats to that filter and there’s none. Zero.

It’s bloody heartbreaking. A MNetter linked someone yesterday to what she enthusiastically described as a brilliant rescue centre in my area so I had a look out of interest. Every single dog was reactive and had a history of biting. I can’t believe she suggested it to a woman with a 7 year old.

Rescue is one of a number of options when it comes to dog ownership and AIBU to think it’s daft and irresponsible to make people feel bad about not rescuing when there just aren’t suitable dogs available?

@rainyoutside

But the thing is MN would love to have us believe feckless owners buy cockapoos and cavapoos and other poos and then give them up.

When you look at the breeds though it becomes overwhelmingly clear this isn’t the case.

I don’t think that is the MN line on poo mixes, tbh. They aren’t ‘approved of’ for sure, but that’s not because they are assumed to be abandoned by uncaring owners. It’s more down to buyers funding an unethical market for designer crosses that have all these spurious claims attached to them (‘hypoallergenic’ for eg) at astronimical prices (higher than you pay for the pedigree versions of the crossed dogs), but there’s no way of guaranteeing anything with them. No guarantee that the ‘cross’ will produce a dog with the desirable traits from each breed or none of the health problems from either breed. You could end up with the opposite. People question the wisdom of buying a cockapoo when unclipped mini poodles look just the same and have much fewer health issues (cockers are riddled with issues whereas poodles are pretty hardy), are guaranteed the curly ‘hair’ coat, are very intelligent and trainable. Plus a KC poodle with a traceable lineage is likely to cost you less than a trendy cockerpoo. It makes no sense on any level.

total aside - I bloody love a poodle

Puppy makes far more sense for my family.

Even people doing things for altruistic reasons are doing it to fulfill some need within themselves.

No one who does a good deed is doing it entirely without payback. They do it because it's giving them something at some level, even if they aren't conscious of it

I agree but doing what you think is the right thing to do such as getting a rescue dog rather than a puppy, despite it making your life more difficult practically, has some element of not being a completely selfish decision. Sometimes the feelgood factor is outweighed by the difficulties but your conscience won’t let you take the easier route.

And if rescues won’t rehome to you, charlie?

Sometimes the feelgood factor is outweighed by the difficulties but your conscience won’t let you take the easier route. That IS one of the more judgemental HTT versions of that comment I've seen for a while! Well done!

Now... can we go back to the realities of young kids, other pets, time contraints etc etc etc?

we got a puppy 3 weeks ago , after hunting for 3 years , going to every rescue , a lot round here want you to sponsor a dog instead of re-homing, we have kids and cats , ive done my research and have owned dogs before , but i was told by all that i couldnt rehome as my children were under 9 & 5 years old

YANBU. Having rescued dogs before, I would never do so with young children.

I have had two who have been absolutely lovely and would have fitted in with family life no problem, I've had others who would not have and it could have been potentially dangerous.

All, even the super friendly gentle ones, have had issues of some kind which needed more extensive training and work than when I've had dogs from puppies.

If I were to get a dog with young children, as hard work as they can be, I would get a puppy from a reputable breeder.

If I were on my own or it were just me and DH (and we had no cats or other animals) I would always choose a rescue because I think it's a lovely thing to do. But it isn't always the right thing, it depends massively on your circumstances and it isn't easy a lot of the time.

@JonHammIsMyJamm - where’s your evidence that poo crosses have any more issues that pure bred poodles? More “designer dogs” Parents are tested for genetic issues anyway. Surely mongrels make the best dogs as they say.

They’re very popular but rarely end up in rescue centres. Says a lot to me.

I would go for rescue every time. Lots of dogs are in rescue centres in the first place because well intentioned people have taken in puppies, but then didn't have the skills, knowledge, time or work ethic/determination required to train them properly.

where’s your evidence that poo crosses have any more issues that pure bred poodles? More “designer dogs” Parents are tested for genetic issues anyway. Surely mongrels make the best dogs as they say.

I am not anti-crosses at all and wish the KC would recognise the more common ones so that they can start to get the extra (albeit still inadequate) protection that brings.

But this is a fundamental error in genetic understanding to say that specific crosses would benefit from hybrid vigour. They do not. The gene pool still remains too small for that. Crosses are nothing like mongrels (genetically). In fact, if you map out the genetics, you can see that F2 generations are MORE likely still than their parents, to suffer genetic problems. Add then the decrease in genetic testing that happens in many cross matings and you have an issue.

It also stands to reason that if cockers have a high amount of genetic issues and poodles have a low amount (true) then crosses will be somewhere inbetween.

rainy you can get a puppy. It’s legal. Many people do. I just don’t think pet ownership is kind to the world or to pets, and is mostly a selfish endeavour, but pets that already exist need homes or need to be euthanised, so rehoming unwanted dogs is the only ethical option.

And now I need to get some work done so I need to step away from this.

I think we struck gold at an RSPCA re-homing centre..

DS was nine, I'd done loads of research and read behaviour books on dogs..

As we were leaving, a staff member said ''I think I know just the dog that could suit you'' ...and showed us a skeletal Lurcher puppy who had initially come over to say 'Hello'.

I was like ''Hmm...I didn't really want a puppy?''....The pup's kennel mate proceeded to hump her vigorously, {dominance} and the pup looked just so dejected and dispirited I said I'd take her, pending home check.

Had to have 2 metre high secure fenced garden, {that cost a lot!} but she was a perfect 'fit'.

The staff member said after years of watching people she knows the sort of dog that would suit them.

Lurchers and their quietness and sensitivity , their 'feline-ness' suited us.

You have to put the work in, but remember

Many puppy farmed pups are not well socialised.

Socialisation done early on is crucial Expose the pup to as much as possible to make them calm and without fear as adults.

Rehoming centres do get some really lovely dogs passing through.

@Acornsgalore

I would go for rescue every time. Lots of dogs are in rescue centres in the first place because well intentioned people have taken in puppies, but then didn't have the skills, knowledge, time or work ethic/determination required to train them properly.

This!

Sing it from the rooftops.

''Oh let's get the kids a Labradoodle, so good with children

Said pup isn't socialised.

It is would up by kids.

Dog isn't taught basic manners, and mouths /bites the children.

As hormones kick in, dog gets bolshier.

Woman usually gets pregnant again, and dog gets less exercise.

Dog chews, becomes bored. Destructive. Still has 'accidents' in the house.

Sadly seen this happen to a local dog. {A ridiculously expensive mongrel given a fashionable 'Poo' or 'Doodle' name}

Dog usually at 18 months old , is looking for a new home.

edit ''Wound -up'' not ''would up'' {predictive}

Except oak rescue centres are not bursting with Labradoodles, are they?

We've been down both paths and I'd say we're pretty good pet owners. Our rescue spaniel came to us through a friend of a friend and it was only once she was here we were told she had bitten previously and was terribly reactive, resource guarding and generally a bit of a knob. We agreed that we either had to train and maintain her or have her euthanised because we couldn't have rehomed her. Ten years later she was impeccable, but never once did we let her take an inch; she knew who was in charge, she knew her place and she knew what we expected.

A friend of ours had poo puppies a few years ago and one needed rehoming at 10 weeks because the owners couldn't stand the crying at night. I refused to pay for him - he's a rescue mongrel and I refuse to agree that he'd be worth anything above £10. He's been incredible with the DC, incredible with our cats, incredible generally. However, he came into a home where we already had an impeccably-trained older dog who always kept him in check, so he wasn't likely to end up a shit.

Whichever way you go, you're going to have to work bloody hard. And you're going to be making a 10 year commitment, at least. I would have another rescue if the timing was right because I'm confident that I'd be equipped to handle it, but wouldn't suggest it to everyone with DC.

I don't believe that the majority of dogs who end up in rescue centres are puppies that irresponsible people got and tired of when they realise they were not the perfect companion.

I regularly check dogs available in our local rescue centres and under 1 are extremely rare. Dogs available are more often between 2 and 6yo.

No doubt it happens but there are many more reasons for dogs to end up in a rescue centre.

@Acornsgalore

I would go for rescue every time. Lots of dogs are in rescue centres in the first place because well intentioned people have taken in puppies, but then didn't have the skills, knowledge, time or work ethic/determination required to train them properly.

Whilst this is true to some extent, how many families keep their puppies who then grow up to be well trained and loved family members?

A lot more than the ones that end up in rescue centres.

The big rescues shoot themselves in the foot. Although technically the DH and I work full time, his shifts mean the dogs aren’t left more than 4 hours bar once a month, when the neighbour takes them into her house. We would have been rejected by rescues.

I’d rather have puppies so I know their history and train them from as young as possible. I know puppies are born into rescues, but I’m very fixed on my breed and having 2 at a time, which many people frown on (valid reasons in some cases).

yep it was impossible for me to find a rescue dog. I searched for 3 years but I wanted a poodle cross and the only ones I could find in rescues had health issues, behavioural issues, were anxious and from puppy farm backgrounds. A lot of rescues told me they wouldn't rehome a dog with me anyway as I work full time (even though I told them the dog would be dropped off with my mum 50% of the time, and at doggy daycare the rest of the week.)

I ended up buying a cockapoo from a large scale breeder which I'm pretty sure was just a puppy mill with good marketing! I really resented handing money to them and felt very guilty, but I've ended up with a fantastic dog who has no issues whatsoever. She's the most spoilt and happy dog in the world and is rarely left alone as my mum loves looking after her!

Except oak rescue centres are not bursting with Labradoodles, are they?

It would be too simplistic to use this as measure, tbh.

Poodle crosses are more likely to:

a) be sold rather than surrendered; this is due to their historic high price and people wanting to get some money back. A recent review of pets4homes found them to be among the highest listed for dogs aged 12 months +
b) despite this, in a study of most frequenlty surrendered breeds in Scotland (admittedly not the whole UK) poodle crosses were pretty high on the list but were also seen to be adopted more quickly which means shelters would look empty of those breeds but that is not reflective of how often they are surrendered

Again, I take a balanced view myself in terms of rescues and crosses, but like to share when studies have shown greater insight into reality.

I don't think YABU - I wanted to rescue a dog a couple of years ago (a lurcher or Greyhound, any kind of pointy really). I don't work, lived rurally, I had a secure garden, I had doggy day care (my dm) on tap if I needed it, I can afford insurance, good food, unexpected bills etc. I've also grown up with pointy dogs, my mum has 2 of them now etc etc. However, because my son was only 2yo at the time, not one rescue would consider me. Incredibly frustrating. BUT having said all that, I still couldn't bring myself to buy a dog. I cannot reconcile with the indiscriminate, unnecessary, irresponsible breeding that goes on, nor to help validate it by becoming part of that whole chain. So I'll just wait until my son is older (he's now 5yo) or until a rescue deems us suitable.

I ended up buying a cockapoo from a large scale breeder which I'm pretty sure was just a puppy mill with good marketing! I really resented handing money to them and felt very guilty

But does the ends jusify the means?

One happy, healthy puppy at the cost of the mum who is likely to have led a difficult and/or painful and/or rather miserable life.