To think buying a puppy is far more sensible for most people than rehoming a dog

[rainyoutside]

I’m a big advocate of animal welfare but AIBU to be concerned at posters who relentlessly push people considering having a dog towards rescue?

For one thing I don’t even know any rescue centres who will rehome to families with young children. But mn insist that they do.

Greyhounds are often pushed on here as an ideal first dog. They are absolutely huge. We would need a new car if we adopted a greyhound. Then it’s insisted they don’t have a strong prey drive. Er - they were bred for hare coursing. I’m sure there are some exceptions, just like there are some Labs who hate water and some stupid border collies, but it’s in the breed descriptor.

Looking on the dogs trust website, out of hundreds of dogs available for rehoming there are nine who can live with primary aged children. Add cats to that filter and there’s none. Zero.

It’s bloody heartbreaking. A MNetter linked someone yesterday to what she enthusiastically described as a brilliant rescue centre in my area so I had a look out of interest. Every single dog was reactive and had a history of biting. I can’t believe she suggested it to a woman with a 7 year old.

Rescue is one of a number of options when it comes to dog ownership and AIBU to think it’s daft and irresponsible to make people feel bad about not rescuing when there just aren’t suitable dogs available?

If no dogs are available to you it is probably because your home is not a suitable environment for a dog

I am not totally sure of this and have seen a slow turn in (some) people involved in rescue to think they have started to go too far with criteria. Escpeially in those that are more involved in the sudy and research of rescue risks and successes.

A number of epople have started to speak out and I know of a couple that have left the resuce "industry" altogether because they feel the criteria is failing the dogs they are meant to be helping.

The single most influenctial factor is how succesful an adoption is is not how strict the charity is in assessing potential homes - it is the level of education and support that new owners receive afterwards. Many rescues cannot afford the resource to provide this, sadly, but it is the key thing that makes a difference between what adoptions succeed and what result in the dog being surrendered again.

ive been looking for a dog too ( last year but im going to wait til ive moved house now so probably end of next year ) but cant rescue as none available for young kids and i have 2 toddlers

and if they magically pop up its just not the breed that matches my family or the temperament.

I feel really sad when people that get puppies are made to feel less like dog lovers because they didn't rescue .

We recently tried to help my In laws adopt. They are experienced dog owners and have had lots of rescue greyhounds all who have lived long loved lives with them but they were keen to have a different breed this time around. It was literally impossible to find a rescue that they could pass the home check for as they have my Neice's once a week. It made me so sad . They had so much time and love to give a dog but no one would consider them due to occasional care of children.

I just think it's getting harder and harder to adopt which is another reason ( other than lockdown) that puppy prices are going up!

I think there is a tendancy to think a puppy is a blank canvas. It's not. A puppy already comes preloaded with genetic and learned behaviours (learning starts in the womb) - you just won't often see the results of that preloading until the dog is older. But it's there.

It feels like the safer bet, but I don't think it is.

Dogs don’t exist just to make your life better, that’s what breeding is - allowing humans to have what they want when they want

Couldn't the same be said of having children?
I actually don't get what's so wrong about wanting a pet as long as you are willing to give them happiness and love. Yes unscrupulous breeding needs to be addressed. But some people want that bonding experience of raising a puppy over adopting a fully grown dog. It doesn't make them bad people. I wouldn't get a dog, puppy or full grown, so I have no personal experience of it. But surely people will want what suits their family? And again, I don't see anything wrong with that.

One charity palladin? I have referenced at least three up there.

We wanted a puppy so we weren't potentially taking on a dog with issues from its former life

And the vast majority of those dogs with 'issues' were bought as puppies by irresponsible adults who couldn't be arsed to care for them properly. The only reason rescues exist is because they are needed to clean up the mess that breeders and irresponsible owners create. The only reason breeders exist is because irresponsible adults care more about buying puppies than they do animal welfare. It's such a vicious cycle.

It is a vicious cycle but that makes it sound as if every person who buys a puppy ends up rehoming it, which clearly isn’t the case, especially when you break down the number of dogs available by breed.

A rehomed dog demands more attention, patience and care to adjust to their specific needs. That's why it is only right that shelters should be picky to ensure they go to the right home for these dogs.

It doesn't mean that other homes can't be right for a puppy. A puppy alone is hard work BUT you are in the driving force of educating them so they display behaviour traits you can bond with and manage with your lifestyle.

Of course genetics is a key factor too, that's inevitable but by 6 to 12 months, you can teach your puppy and get them to adapt to many things.

It takes a lot longer if ever at all to do the same with an older dog which has gone through some sort of trauma.

I could welcome a puppy and give it a happy life right now, not a rescue dog. I hope to able to do so when I retire.

I would always get my dogs from a reputable breeder and cats as kittens. I would not want to start off with problem pets. I have 4 cats and 2 dogs and people comment to.me my cats are so friendly and don't scratch or bite and dogs so well behaved. It is because they have all only known kindness. If you get a resume dog or cat it may have behaviour issues as abused in the past. I know not all rescue dogs and cats have behaviour issues but a fair few do.

YANBU & YABU.

YANBU - most families with young kids can be better off with a very young dog that they raise.

YABU - about greyhounds. Have you ever had a greyhound? They come in all sorts of sizes, and whilst they are sighthounds, not every grey has a high prey drive and will chase - it depends on the dog.

@PalTheGent

I think there is a tendancy to think a puppy is a blank canvas. It's not. A puppy already comes preloaded with genetic and learned behaviours (learning starts in the womb) - you just won't often see the results of that preloading until the dog is older. But it's there.

It feels like the safer bet, but I don't think it is.

This.

I’ve never had a greyhound. I’m sure there are some with a low prey drive. Except they are bred for hunting!

When choosing a puppy you can choose a breed that suits you. Of course there are some variations - my friend had a really arsey retriever - but as a rule.

We've been searching Rescues too as we finally moved to our own house from rented. We also have primary school aged children.

We were giving up hope as it seemed impossible, but we just brought home the most adorable 10 month old puppy from our local rescue!

I also completely agree OP.

We got our dog two years ago as a puppy from a UK charity that had links to a shelter in Romania. We went down that route after just not being able to find any dogs at all through shelters in the UK. My DP also thought it would be more ethical to adopt a dog than buying from a breeder (my parents had had two dogs from breeders growing up, whereas his had always had rescues...with problems, which should've been a big red flag).

Our dog has been....A Lot. He was allegedly abandoned with his five brothers and sisters at a day old. As a puppy / adolescent, he had extreme issues with food guarding and territorial aggression. He's historically bitten my DP and me countless times, badly enough to scar. He's nipped our friends, and got close to doing it with strangers in the park. I can't explain how stressful it has been (and we decided to get a dog to help with my mental health!).

He's much, much better now (and is weirdly great with a lot of stuff other dogs aren't, such as going to pubs and restaurants and with small kids), but we still have to watch so carefully for his triggers, which are now mostly people coming into our house that are "not on his list" (like he is some sort of dog bouncer) and people he decides to take against in a radius of streets and parks around our house. That has taken a lot of work, including muzzle training and taking him repeatedly to various vet behaviourists.

We had to do all of that with zero help from the charity - and when I emailed to ask for help at the start, the absolutely batty woman in charge of it (who seems to have some sort of messiah complex - which one of the behaviourists says is weirdly common with small rescue charities) just accused me of being a terrible person who wanted to drug our dog / have him put down, which we never would've done. So we were completely on our own once we had him, short of giving her the chance of "rescuing" him from us again.

I've subsequently found out via SM that all of his siblings have similar problems. One of the behaviourists also told us that puppies are shaped by three things - 1.) their genetics; 2.) their environment; and 3.) their learned experiences. He said that Romanian rescues in particular are predisposed to having poor genetics and the experience of spending three days in a van being driven over from Romania (via various other European countries) is often extremely traumatic for them. He also said that people are now increasingly influenced by insta and the romance of "rescuing a poor creature from an impoverished country" but imo rescuing is definitely not for everyone, and definitely definitely not for first time dog owners.

So, in short, I'm so glad we have our dog and wouldn't change him for anything and we eventually want another, but I will never ever rescue again, unless our circumstances change (i.e,. post kids and if we move out of central London).

To stop the cycle rescues need to relax the criteria a bit surely otherwise people who would otherwise be open to adopting a dog feel forced to get a puppy.

I'm sure the previous poster was right who said it's more about support than criteria. I think attitude would be a lot of it. They need to reject less people on tick box criteria and interview more people to see what their attitude is. Do they have plans for days out/ holidays, do they know realistic costs, have they thought about if circumstances change?

I won't be getting a puppy. Far too much like hard work. All that peeing and chewing. If we can't rescue a suitable dog we won't get a dog but many people in our situation would get a puppy instead and so the cycle continues.

Well said OP. We tried all the rescue centres in our area and the criteria was so restrictive it was impossible. We bought a puppy instead so I guess we aren't animal lovers in some peoples eyes... luckily the dog thinks we are though

I don't think anybody should be getting any kind of dog at the moment. Illness, job loss, change in economic and housing circumstances are so much more likely that what starts off as a brilliant idea to keep you company while WFH could end up a nightmare drain on relationships and resources. Donate time or money to rescue charities instead.

I rescued a cat 15 years ago. It was totally feral when she showed up at our door. She was still very young.

It took years for her to become mellow, but somehow, she went from only letting get close to her to desperately going to anyone for a cuddle, even total strangers! She was such a lovely cat in the end, but it was ok because she was a cat and therefore not half as demanding. I would have found it very hard with a dog equivalent at that time (young kids, working ft etc...).

We've had this same problem. I have contacted countless rescues, small and large and only one agreed to rehome with a resident toddler and in the last 6 months they have only had 1 dog that was suitable (by their assessments). So we chose a puppy instead. It's super hard work but I'm glad the puppy and toddler will grow together

I’ve had 3 rescue dogs from 3 different rescues (Dogs Trust, MTAR and an local independent rescue). The first dog I got when DD was 9 months, the second when she was 5, the third when she was 6. One was a year old, one was a puppy, one was 2/3 years. Only one is left and DD is now 15.

I didn’t have a breed in mind and got 3 very different dogs - one cross, one mutt and one pure bred.

I lived in two different areas when I got my dogs, and it didn’t take long to find them at all. With the first two all I needed to wait for was a home check (the last one I was already a volunteer at the rescue and took on a dog that no one else wanted!) I am surprised that people are struggling with this tbh.

I half agree.

Rescues, especially the big organisations, have very strict restrictions. Too strict for a lot of homes - the Dogs Trust approved me as a suitable home, but didn't have a single dog that they thought would live harmoniously with a cat. They advised me of the days I could turn up, extra early, to apply for the next batch available who might have cat-approved dogs there - but that competition for those dogs would be high. I went away with a feeling of what's the point competing for one of those cat safe rescue dogs when they'll be okay, lots of people want them. I rehomed by word of mouth from a vet who rescued a dog from being put to sleep with nothing wrong with him, in the end.

But these organisations have had decades of experience of unsuitable homes returning dogs that they couldn't cope with, so I don't blame them.

In case like the staffie smiles advert, if the demand exceeds supply why shouldn't they restrict applications to the very most suitable homes?

On the other hand, there are many dogs in need and instead of rehoming these dogs, people are fuelling the unbelievable cruel world of puppy farming. Responsible breeders didn't just produce more puppies when demand soared from their well thought out healthy bloodlines and well cared for breeding bitches with waiting lists as long as your arm... but you bet your ass irresponsible puppy farmers did, and thousands of people suddenly desperate for a dog to call their own were either naive enough to believe ropey stories or willing enough to overlook obvious red flags that the puppy farms could get away with atrocities. I'm not going to list them here because they are so distressing, but Google what puppy farming actually involves if you have the stomach for it. Certainly Google how to ensure you are buying from a reputable breeder if you decide to buy a puppy.

For me, it boils down to this - dog ownership is a luxury, not a right. Too many of us convince ourselves that the charities rules are too strict, rather than that our individual circumstances aren't actually all that great for a dog. Too many people want a dog NOW rather than wait for the right one. WAY too many people inadvertently support puppy farming.

I advise people to rehome from the smaller rescues or by word of mouth, if they can't get anywhere with the big rescues. They often know their individual dogs better and have a more pragmatic approach to rehoming.

So true. There are amazing rescue dogs out there but aren't suitable for everyone because most are there for a reason (not the dogs fault but poor training from a family who should never have got a dog is common). Before you get a dog of any age you need to ensure you ca care for it including adequate training. I've only had dogs from puppies and mine have all been trained but I chose to have an intelligent breed.

FWIW I think the biggest threat to dog welfare is not those people who buy a puppy rather than adopt. It's those that display willful ignorance when choosing who to buy from.

I see it all. the. time. People who prioritise the wrong things:

• coat colour, especially weird colours for the breed
• date of availability, being able to get a puppy at the start of the summer holidays for e.g.
• insta-cuteness, resulting in breed choice for looks not health or temperament
• ease of buying, i.e. not being asked too many questionsby the breeder

If everyone who bought did so with greater diligence and a higher expectation of welfare for both mum and pups then we'd go a long way to tackling poor breeding practice.

@IJustWantSomeBees “ If no dogs are available to you it is probably because your home is not a suitable environment for a dog, and sense would conclude that it is then best to simply not get a dog”

This is simply not true.

Please tell me how we are unsuitable dog owners?

1. Both work from home some days of week so are there with the dog
2. Days we both need to work in office dog goes to a small day care ran by a lovely couple. He runs over to them whenever we go and loves it there. We’ve kept it up during lockdown once a week so he can have the interaction with other dogs.
3. No money worries so dog has excellent quality food (circa 80 spent a month on dog food) pet insurance and vet care along with frequent grooming
4. Dog has x2 walks a day, x2 training sessions and play sessions a day
5. Dog goes to my parents farm when we go on holiday and has a lovely time romping round the fields with their two dogs.
6. Dog has a large secure back garden to run around in
7. Dog has a indoor kennel to sleep in at night and x3 luxury beds in our office and sitting rooms for use during the day and had the run of the house
8. Dog has lots of toys which are replaced frequently when he wrecks them
9. No children or other animals in the house

Waiting to hear why we aren’t suited to having a dog?

Rescue rejected us outright as we both work outside the home ignoring our resources, family help and flexible working hours.