To wonder WHY parents can't afford to feed their kids isn't being addressed?

[BearPomBear]

Just that really....

In the mid 80’s my Dsister’s husband fucked off with a secretary, moved abroad and swore an affidavit to the effect that he had no income or savings,despite owning a stock broking business.

DSis was trying to feed and clothe herself and their young child on £15 per week. If it wasn’t for our father having spare money, and me working FT with no dependants, she wouldn’t have coped.

As MonicaBelulaGeller said, it’s not ever the fault of the children wether the parents are feckless or working their fingers to the bones for shit pay.

"It was awful, but there was a massive amount going on to support the miners.

My Labour party branch used to collect money in buckets at all the Croydon railway stations in the rush hours. We collected a 5-figure sum during the strike. We used to get all the change changed into notes, and every week someone would drive up to one of the mining areas to deliver it in person, because the union's funds were sequestered and it couldn't go through their bank account."

I was told that in south Wales people would just chuck some change into their neighbours' letter boxes if they were striking. Told by a friend who was not there himself though so I don't know how reliable it is.

[quote SheepandCow]@TableFlowerss
Re your suggestion of social cleansing.
It's not so simple as making everybody move somewhere cheaper.

The impact on mental health can and does cost money. People being forced away from everything they know, their jobs, their families (often the childcare that lets them work), their support networks.

Most people on benefits are working full-time. So you think they should give up their jobs to move to a cheaper area (which is often cheaper because of limited work opportunities)? If they get a new job in a new area, what do they do about childcare now that they've been moved away from their families?

You think it's acceptable to move on mass disabled people away from their home and support networks. Uproot disabled (or indeed any) children from their schools, friends, families.

Moving people away from their settled communities and the ensuing isolation is one of the reasons why we see so much demand for mental health and social care. Societies are fractured.

The answer is not social cleansing. It's mass council housing (no right to buy).[/quote]
Hmmm some would call it ‘social cleaning’, however given that London is one of the most expensive cities in the world to live, it’s not surprising the average person is being priced out.

It’s all very well screaming ‘social cleansing‘ and stamping feet to stay close to your roots however that’s simply not sustainable. Most people can’t afford to live in expensive areas, despite being born there.

Plenty of younger people bright in in posh suburban areas up north can’t afford to live in the areas and it’s shit but people have no child but to move for a better lifestyle and standard of living.

Also - not sure why you’re being up disabled people. That’s a complete different thing.

@Gwenhwyfar I don't have a DH, I've never been married. I'm in a relationship but we don't live together or share finances.
I do earn a good salary now but when my eldest DC was young I was earning well under 25k. I certainly wasn't able to save much then but just tried to live as cheaply as I could within reason. A basic pushchair for my DC for example rather than the fancy £4-500 ones that lots of my peers had.

So you would have been eligible for child benefits then, bet you claimed them.

Absolutely that wages have not gone up in line with costs. Never cease to roll my eyes at surprisingly low inflation figures - but inflation figures include things like holidays which h actually haven't increased in price much, true. But our last holiday was 3 days at Butlins a year ago and that was our first one in 18 months....

Like a pp, my food shop is higher. I am doing less ad hoc shopping, it's true, but my weekly bill has gone up 20-30%over the last year. Probably 10-15% total if you take into account fewer trips to Tesco local. I am self employed and cannot increase my fees, nor have I in 4 years.... clients simply wont pay if I try.

Sil has had to move3 times in 4 years. Each house similar to one before. Her rent today is nearly 50% higher than 4 years ago....(although she does have one extra bedroom now so that is part of the increase. But not all).

Government seems oblivious to real costs, real wages, real rent increases, real cost of living increases. Plus complete lack of affordable, reliable and flexible childcare for many people (oh, and let's not forget that as a society we were already moving to less community support for each other but Covid had made this grind to a complete.halt with grandparents and other extended family nsupport pretty much stopped).

And they are surprised people are struggling? Wankers.

Gosh has someone put another penny in your slot Tom? Bore off.

Why don't you stop being so judgemental and stealth bragging about your own piety.

You claimed benefits. You are a hypocrite.

I would absolutely love to move out of London.

Cannot afford to, it isnt free. Plus we have only just got to the whole "no DSS" being unacceptable, although a credit check and bank statements will no doubt be required in any event.

It is very tory to pretend that there are solutions readily available, when for many there just aren't.

When I first went on benefits, 2 years ago, I found out that even on my wage I had been entitled to Housing Benefit that I wasn't even claiming.

If you don't come from a family who know anything about benefits, you don't claim them properly.

@ThornAmongstRoses

Or in my sisters case - because she was being severely financially abused by their father.

Thankfully things eventually righted themselves when SS was involved after his teachers caught him taking food out of other children’s lunch boxes.

Jesus Chris PP - I hope your sister (and the kids of course) are OK now?

Hmm Tom I think you're displaying a FAR more judgemental (and hostile) attitude than I am. I'm wondering what exactly has irked you quite so much about me because clearly I seem to have attracted your vitriol more than other posters who have made not dissimilar comments on this thread! I Have you targeted me because I had the temerity to say I'd not always been comfortably off, rather than self flagellating about my notionally privileged origins? Or because I've been a single parent, without support? Or maybe something else. Well, I won't be losing sleep over it. You carry on being bitter, I just won't trouble myself to engage with you further.

For many years poverty has been increasing particularly among working families.
Last year people voted for it to continue.
So it’s continuing.
The will of the people I believe it’s called.
That’s why it’s not being addressed.

@TableFlowerss
l don't even know if I want to ask what you mean by it's not social cleansing but instead 'social cleaning'?! Do you mean you think poor people are dirty?

That's the point about the need for mass council housing. London should not be the most expensive city in the world. (Nowhere should but we can only control the situation in the UK). Poor people need to live there too. You know - those essential workers. Cleaners, health and social care staff, etc.

Like I said. It's all very well telling people to just move - but that means they have to give up their jobs and lose their childcare.

And, the social and mental health impact of social cleansing does matter. Fractured communities, shattered networks. It has a cost. A social one - but also, on a less individual level, a financial one (in terms of increased social and mental health care costs, crime, etc).

Disability is very relevant. It's not a completely different thing. It's why many people need to claim benefits. Either for themselves or a child. It's why so many families (and individuals) are living in dire poverty.

" when my eldest DC was young I was earning well under 25k. I certainly wasn't able to save much then"

well exactly, you couldn't save much when you had an ordinary wage, but now you have a high wage, you can. It's got very little to do with where you go on holiday.

Exactly. The whole pious nature of her posts is very annoying.

@Gwenhwyfar not quite the point I was making. I lived well within my means, even then. Not quite so frugal as acquaintances of mine who collect windfall fruit, go foraging, skip and bin diving and almost never buy anything, but also not getting into debt or spending every penny. That might seem fairly standard, but our materialistic culture means there are lots of people who are falling into this trap.

That said, I'm also aware that some are getting into debt simply to cover the most basic living costs, and clearly that cannot be right.

I'm very much middle class and am in a much better position to feed my kids for the equivalent of the child benefit because I can ignore the cost of electricity (no overpriced key meter) and have good quality efficient appliances (A+ rated full height fridge freezer) so I can take advantage of special offers, cook things like jacket potatoes (combi microwave with special setting) and buy cheaper cuts of meat that need long slow cooking to be tender enough for fussy kids. I can also buy a slow cooker on impulse, and if push comes to shove run an expensive electric halogen heater.

All privilege that makes the basics cheaper...

I also have a car so I can access big supermarkets, buy cheap bulk packs of washing powder, pasta and toilet roll and (vitally important at the moment) access drive through Covid tests every time one of the DC gets a cough or fever so we get results within 12 hours rather than several days meaning no loss of income.

DH also (through the privilege of education) has a job where his employers value him and he can work from home and get paid even when I was in hospital...

The general principle that having more money makes life cheaper definitely applies!

"I lived well within my means, even then. "

But you weren't on minimum wage either were you. You had a modest income and a modest lifestyle. Nothing special. Not spending on silly things doesn't suddenly create lots of money.

I’m sure the reasons are wide and varied but it still annoys me when parents claim they cannot afford to feed their kids but they smoke 1-2 packets cigarettes a day!

It’s not the kids fault and I don’t want to see kids go hungry ever but it’s not always about just chucking more money at people

Every year my private rent increases, LHA rates take time to catch up. There is usually a £3/400 shortfall of housing benefit where I live. That is a lot of money taken from the other benefits actually needed to live.

So true about housing benefit not covering the rent in some areas. The 2011 Welfare Reform Act reduced housing benefit to the lowest 30% of local rents, used to be 50%, and then the local housing allowance rate was frozen from 2016 to 2020 all whilst private rents continued to rise. This meant a considerable shortfall in housing benefit/housing benefit part of UC.

Also as others have mentioned in addition there is the 5 week wait for UC, benefit cap, 2 child cap, benefit sanctions (these were stopped for the first 3 months of coronavirus but govt reintroduced them at the start of July) and I am sure others I have not considered.

Shelter

@millymollymoomoo

I’m sure the reasons are wide and varied but it still annoys me when parents claim they cannot afford to feed their kids but they smoke 1-2 packets cigarettes a day!

It’s not the kids fault and I don’t want to see kids go hungry ever but it’s not always about just chucking more money at people

What's a couple of individual people smoking fags got to do with the widespread issues of poverty?

Oh well at least those cigarette smokers are doing their bit for the economy and tax revenue. Billions in tax, and massive savings on pensions and social care costs.

"I lived well within my means, even then."

And you could have managed for a few months on meagre redunancy whilst living on your savings?

You could have sustained a 20% fall in your income for months?

Doubt it.

Pious rubbish.

Beautifully put, @randomsabreuse. My dad has always said that money begets money and the older I get the more that I think he's right!

Letting UC put people into debt through advance payments needs to stop - the monthly deductions make a big difference to an already tight budget.
People who get made redundant can find housing allowance doesn't cover rent - there should be a transition period (maybe rent covered for up to 6 months then LHA?).
Mental health services need ramping up.