AIBU colleague should quit job now that she's moved to another country?

[Waferbiscuit]

In February colleague told our office that she was moving to Spain in the summer and would be resigning in the late Spring in time for the move. She wasn't happy in her role (which was more than a bit evident) and wanted a change - she was moving back home and would look for something there. She told everyone as wanted to be transparent about what was going on her life and didn't want her resignation to be a surprise.

Then Covid happened, colleague was furloughed from March and even though she DID physically move back to Spain she did not resign. She remained on furlough until this month. She's now back working remotely while living in another country.

She's now saying she won't resign and is lobbying to work remotely on a permanent basis. The rest of us will have to return to the office when we are expected to return; obviously she can't because, well, she lives across an ocean. If she gets to work from home permanently and we don't, because we actually live near to where we work, that feels deeply unfair.

Surely she's having a laugh? I know you can't force someone to resign, but surely carrying on like this isn't possible? HR don't know how to deal with these new situations so I get the impression they are treading lightly, which is not helpful.

Seems to be one of those "good for her, sucks for you" things. Yeah, it's unfair that there are different rules and you have to pick up the slack. but it is the managements decision and there is no reason for her to resign at the moment.

@Ifonlyoneday

She is liable to local Spanish taxes as is your employers organisation as they are now employing someone in Spain. She will need to pay tax in Spain. Also HMRC would need to be advised if they are non resident and paying Uk taxes.

It’s not as simple as people say on here, both the person and the organisation now need to get there act together and sort out the tax liabilities. Many companies will not employ people abroad for this very reason

Exactly. As an employer you need to make you are withholding the proper taxes and social security, etc.

My employer is a huge European company, and working in another country than the one under which your employment contract is signed is not allowed.

The job does not sound senior enough to tolerate this arrangement.

Very senior jobs don't really have tasks as such, and tend to just be ideas and equivalent. Thus there is noone left in the office having to, for example, send parcels out.

Can't see HR standing for this one.

I'm surprised that it's allowed from a data protection point of view. I work as a contractor for a public sector organisation but I'm not allowed to access the work network from abroad.

Think you are being bitter and projecting your concerns about a situation not even yet realised. Flexible working is between her boss and her only, they will consider the the business as well as her individual circumstances..treating everyone the same actually treats some unfairly.

I suppose I don't like it because I think in the long run these sorts of arrangements are bad for local communities and economys. Yes it does concern you because it does impact your work.

I think the tax issue will be the one the company hasn’t in all likelihood thought through properly. I work from home in the UK for a non-UK country and it really isn’t straightforward at all. Tax treaties (if any) and local tax authority rules are slow-moving and behind the times insofar as these WFHAbroad circumstances are concerned.

Aside from the tax issue that everyone's mentioned there is another problem of her right to work in the UK. As she's a Spanish national now living in Spain there is the very real possibility that come next year she loses the right to work in the UK without a work visa. Massive headache for the company if that happens.

it's not up to you, though, is it OP so just butt out and let her get on with it?

Everyone has the right to negotiate their own contract with the company they work for. Same goes for you.

I think it's silly to resent her for being in Spain. However, you have a point with the parcels. This has happened to me in the past, but wouldn't now because we're all working from home so very little is printed and sent by post. Everyone's in the same boat.

In the past I've had to answer the phone for a colleague who worked from home, the employer didn't set anything up for her to be able to do that from home and she wouldn't use her personal phone. Another time, a colleague moved to another office so I had to take on the job of going to the bank, which was quite an addition to my job and a bit risky to boot. That part is unfair, her working from abroad is not.

How long until other jobs are going to be shipped to Spain and other cheaper countries? Before we couldn’t work from home because of whatever, but now companies are thinking why are we using U.K. based workers.

The company would be stupid to let her go this without changing her to being a contract worker. If she stays PAYE it will create a complicated tax issue. At the moment with COVID everyone is being very flexible and accommodating, but when we go into the next phase, economic recovery this sort of thing may be a sore point.

I’ve actually relocated abroad to Portugal in the last month but didn’t have a job to go to. It would have been wonderful if I did! She may be lobbying to work remotely but in reality there are lots of issues with taxation etc and her residency and it will all get a lot more difficult due to Brexit. It’s quite likely your company will not see it as sustainable or cost effective.

Exactly. We don’t all live in a bubble. Europe is not the other side of the world and COVID has forced a lot of employment situations to become more flexible.
Obviously she will have to get her tax situation sorted out but this is not impossible.
And it sounds like there will be some roles that need to be adjusted but that’s really a matter for your employer surely?

not sure if you can "work from home" if you live overseas OP
For a start there are taxation and employment law implications to consider esp for countries like France and Germany, not sure about Spain. HR should just say no and refer to her contract of employment when she doesn't return to work, they should also seek advice from their payroll provider regarding taxation, think you can be non resident for 6 months but each country is different. I am all for remote working and hybrid working but what she is trying to do is not that!

Yup great until your employer sees how your jobs can all be done virtually from another country...
And then replaces you with cheap labour in another country.

What’s it got to do with you... your employer needs to get some proper legal and tax advice. Don’t get involved!!

I'm sure your company will be able to make it work if they want to. It's common place for people to live/work in Denmark and Sweden and travel daily between the countries. There is an agreement in place that they pay taxes to where they work (from memory it's where they work and not where they live but I could be wrong - it could be where they live).

Sit down and decide what you want to happen for yourself? What is the end result and what would work for you. Then approach your manager with that plan. Her story is her story. If your work changes, due to her location that gives you more support for pushing for what you would like to ask for within your role. Use their flexibility with her to work for you. On the surface, it is not fair, but she is in a great position for her. Now decide what you want and go for it.

If she cannot WFH because of the physical elements of the job, then she cannot WFH. H.R. would be right to make an adjustment to meet the needs of a disabled employee. They are wrong to disadvantage some of the workforce by forcing them to do part of this woman's work.

The conditions of employment were, and are, a necessity for some elements of physical work in a certain location. O.P suspects she will be lumbered with extra workload, and the least attractive parts, presumably without financial compensation or without discussion and freely reached, mutually satisfactory agreement

When Covid hit, the company I work for global giant. We gave employees opportunity to work from another market for max 3 months - as uk employees. This was short term option. Then for 12 months if employees switched to local market. Meaning their salaries were paid in local currency/ local rates/benefits etc as an employee of that market. I think the main reason for the cap is 12 months was around taxation. Some companies might not necessarily pay company tax for employees if they aren’t operating in that market. There were some countries that were exempt like India, New Zealand etc. Not sure why- perhaps tax laws are complex? Also to note some countries were exempt due to data privacy laws. I hear what you are saying OP. I have a colleague who went home on her Uk wage and has been off sick for a bit. Nerve of her to write to me to tell me how lovely a time she is having home and how much money she is saving! Don’t worry too much.

She's not eligible for furlough if she is living in Spain and should not be receiving it. Your employer could get into trouble for claiming it for an overseas employee. Also, living in another country raises tax issues both for the employer and the employee. The employee needs to pay tax in Spain, the employer may be eligible for UK PAYE. It's basically a minefield and I'd be surprised that your employer would be willing to get involved with this once they realise how complicated and fraught with issues it is. Does your HR not understand the tax implications and the implications for their furlough claims? Perhaps you should make them aware?

Is the colleague Spanish? Because she may well get bounced back to the UK in January if she doesn't have permanent permission to reside in Spain ¯\(ツ)/¯

I have a brother in law who works in a different country than he lives in. He travels 400 miles to work each week, home 3 days or 4 days out the week, sometimes works remotely and he is a University lecturer. My other brother in law does the same from Spain. In fact, when I was at university I had a few lecturers that would fly in the morning and go straight to work and fly back. I'm pretty sure people travel from France to London often with work... Don't see why your colleague should give up her job just because she lives in a different country if she can make it work for her, and to be Frank, it's non of your business.

"she may well get bounced back to the UK in January if she doesn't have permanent permission to reside in Spain ¯"

Haven't most EU countries said they'll accept people who registered in their countries before the end of the transition period???