Are carers taking the piss?

[londewy123]

Hi all, I'd really appreciate some advice for others who might have been through the same situation.

My retired parents have hired carers to come to their house 3 times a day, 7 days a week for 1 hour per visit recently- they hired them within the last month.

Dad has (3 days ago) been diagnosed with vascular dementia and my mum has had servere, demolishing depression for 4 years.

Dad doesn't really want carers but needs them to prepare meals, wash up and do basic things like take out the bins.

My concern is recently I've been off work to take dad to appointments and if i randomly come in the house:

X The carers aren't wearing PPE at all!
X They're late by 30 minutes to an hour for their start time- no call or explanation!
X the carers don't seem to do abything; don't engage with parents, house is a shit heap, no washing has been done, floor really obviously dirty, fridge empty almost as if a carer hasn't even been in, let alone three in any 24 hour period!! 7 days a week!! I went in today randomly and the fridge was full of empty food packets. Nothing had been done.

It's heart breaking. I can't afford to give up my job (my own family depend on it).

Should I complain to the carer company? Am I expecting too much?! Wtf, this is the first really experience I've had with carers.

My parents are paying £25,400 PER YEAR for carers to come in 3 times a day, every day per year.

Am I being unreasonable to think they should wear PPE, actually mop the floor, wash clothes? Ensure fridge is semi full of food?
It's so depressing to feel my parents are being taken advantage of.

I work full time and am there when I can be,, hence why we've employed carers!!

Before you go in complaining you should speak to your parents and the company about what was agreed. It's a bit sad you just assume they're taking the piss and won't to compliant before understanding what's going on.

This is a great thread, full of insight and expertise. A possible source of information might be age organisations and the organisation which is for unpaid carers, because they have such insight.

What this thread screams silently is the fact that not one penny has gone to social care, while billions are being chucked here and there, for example to keep unemployed airport bar staff staring at the wall indefinitely, at taxpayers cost, rather than getting more useful work. Those vast numbers of unemployed could get work experience just by working as 'shadowers', unpaid, assisting the carers who are paid and the carers who aren't. Sit By Nellie is the way to learn. If a regular carer is making a meal, the shadower could be doing some vital cleaning despite it not being on a plan, or if the regular carer is preparing the day's medication, the shadower could be sitting with the person who needs coaxing to eat, and so on.

I would go further, and suggest that since care work is arguably the country's number one need, and far and away the one most neglected, an input of fresh eyes and fresh brooms and fresh thinking is desperately needed, and the unemployed/ underemployed are a perfect vast source of input. Does it make sense for anyone to embark on a medical or quasi or paramedical course of learning, or social studies, or any work where empathy and sympathy or flexibility are needed, without first discovering they can enjoy dealing with unwell members of the public? No temporary learning experience is a waste of time. A lot of people, probably the majority, love to have a chance to be decent human beings. Especially if they can be useful.
Anyone holding a door open or anyone feeding birds is getting pleasure from an impulse built into our instincts.

Arguably, the best nurses, the best doctors, the best carers, are the ones who give up because they want to do more, but need more assistance. Rishi wants to pay people not to do anything useful and not to get a worthwhile job. Nobody ever mentions disabled or old people, only ever children.

Logic could make politicians, footballers, journalists and ordinary people all reason out for themselves that whatever children need, including food, care, social interaction, exercise, stimulus, learning, attention, affection, inclusion, warmth, secure housing, someone who wants them to be alive, someone who will attend to them and visit them and laugh with them and talk with them and advocate for them, is not something they will never need again for the rest of their days.

Carers don't clean houses nor do washing usually, you need to check their remit. I strongly advise hiring 2-3 people privately rather than an agency, we actually had a team of 5, all paye on rota at one point

As a carer myself, I assisted with meals, laundry, cleaning, personal care, assisting with medication. Anything I could do to help, including providing emotional support.
Engaging with individuals was one of the many aspects of the role i enjoyed the most.
Even before Covid I Would never attempt to undertake Any task without P.PE.. this not only poses a risk for the individuals we are assisting but ourselves.
Domicilary Carers have so many people to see, they run late, and have very limited time with each person. It is awful, they could at least try and contact people to say they are running behind though. I can understand it is frustrating.
Hope you get the support you need for your loved ones, and please be assured there are plenty of amazing carers out here who do actually care. A lot

Couldn't you organise a weekly supermarket grocery delivery for them?
This isn't all on the carers. And going round to mop their floor once a week wouldn't entail you having to give up your job.

My mother had carers at home (privately paid for). She had moderate dementia and I had LPA, so I engaged them on her behalf via an agency, and I was able to specify what I'd like them to do. They were happy to do whatever was needed. They helped her bath/dress, prepared her meals (sometimes ready meals, but some carers would cook for her), took her shopping, took her to appointments. They provided her with companionship, and they also did every household task which needed doing including cleaning and laundry.

So whether the carers should be doing the cleaning and shopping depends on the arrangement that was made with the agency. You could try calling the agency and asking what the contract stipulates. I don't know if they'd tell you as your parents are the client, not you, but it's worth a try.

It really depends. I worked as a carer and people would have say a shopping call and then their standard calls
One guy I cared for we did his washing as he was bed bound so we would put it in the wash on the morning call, then tumble dry on lunch call and evening call would get it out and fold it up. No cleaning usually for anyone except stuff like washing up, wiping up spills, cleaning the toilet after someone had used it

OP. you also should check if your parents are claiming Attendance Allowance. It sounds as though they might be eligible. The money will cover the cost of cleaning.

I spent a few years as a support worker for adults with learning difficulties in independent homes.

So, I would support them to clean their homes in every way needed, plan meals, shop & cook with them. Support with personal care, arrange appointments/manage home and personal finances, escort them to appointments if needed and even to social outings. Sometimes we just watched tv together while I did ironing or had a chat and enjoyed the garden.

Their care packages could be considerable, perhaps 6+ hours a day in one go or split. Some had more or less but I never felt rushed, I had plenty of time.

Why don't elderly people get support workers like this? Care workers seem only to be allocated time for bare minimum personal tasks. Clients become unkempt, lonely and eat poorly. I don't blame the care workers because the care packages given after assessment do not leave room for anything more than basic tasks and care staff are torn between doing more because they want to or being late for the next person.

I strongly urge you to find a private agreement with a group of experienced support staff paid through direct payments. The relationships between staff and client are better, staff communicate better and you can discuss with them the tasks that need doing and hopefully things will improve for your parents

@Cheerybigbottom (love your fun name!) You pose an excellent question. You describe the lifestyle deemed necessary for some of those with learning difficulties, and another poster details the care she has because she has mental problems.

Physically disabled people are on a lower scale, but elderly people are virtually deemed to be having all they should, if someone has, on paper, turned up and prodded them once a day to see they are alive, and at best handed them some pills and some water and biscuits.

For a zoo animal, the 'care assessment' by cash saving local authorities would be inadequate. But animal rights charities would rightly protest if a chimp in monkey world was deprived of company, left ill and neglected, unable to reach water, or be clean, or warm, or entertained or well fed and carefully nursed if necessary.

(It would never happen, of course, because apes have more rights than humans who have reached a birthday and therefore become non human and fair game to be openly hated and wished to be, and encouraged to be, dead.)

@20mum

Your post puts the point across so much better than I did, thank you!

Why is the bare minimum of care enough for our elderly people? We support them to be alive but take away the benefits of actually being alive and in most cases living in their own homes.

Of course there are people with learning disabilities, physical disabilities and mental health concerns who also are not assessed adequately and therefore not being given enough support and care. But there is an expectation that elderly people will and should be satisfied with their basic bodily needs being attended to and little else.

Assumptions are made that family members will do everything else but so many don't have able or willing family members who can come and clean their skirting boards and fridges.

Why is the bare minimum of care enough for our elderly people?

It's about money. Local authorities simply cannot afford to put in the large amounts of care required for every older person who remains in their own home. Which is why when they reach a certain care threshold then they are generally offered a nursing or residential placement as it works out cheaper.

[quote 20mum]@Cheerybigbottom (love your fun name!) You pose an excellent question. You describe the lifestyle deemed necessary for some of those with learning difficulties, and another poster details the care she has because she has mental problems.

Physically disabled people are on a lower scale, but elderly people are virtually deemed to be having all they should, if someone has, on paper, turned up and prodded them once a day to see they are alive, and at best handed them some pills and some water and biscuits.

For a zoo animal, the 'care assessment' by cash saving local authorities would be inadequate. But animal rights charities would rightly protest if a chimp in monkey world was deprived of company, left ill and neglected, unable to reach water, or be clean, or warm, or entertained or well fed and carefully nursed if necessary.

(It would never happen, of course, because apes have more rights than humans who have reached a birthday and therefore become non human and fair game to be openly hated and wished to be, and encouraged to be, dead.)[/quote]
I wish you were wrong

Many people live entirely alone. A third never have any visitor in hospital let alone in a care home, still less someone to call into their own homes, or ever phone them. Not everyone has an advocate who cares if they are alive, other than a hazy hope that they might die and leave an inheritance.

I have seen instances where bringing up even large families has not been an insurance for old age with someone living nearby and/or caring if the person is starving to death, let alone living in squalor.
(One widow, a severely battered wife , had only been visited in years by one of the vast family, many of whom did live fairly nearby, and even that was only because he had split from his partner, so until he found a new woman, he turned up with his dirty laundry for mother each week! She did re-marry, but it looked as though she would probably nurse the new husband in his last years and be left entirely alone and neglected herself )

Why is the bare minimum of care enough for our elderly people?

It's down to cost and so many old people.
It's marvellous compared to the 70's, very little ito social care for anything.
Family had to provide care, we are very lucky.

Using an independent carer provides consider reliable care that is often cheaper and better quality than agencies. Ultimately we have more to loose if a client isn't happy than we would if we worked for an agency. We can also set our own rates so are being paid a reasonable wage

These are pretty much the reasons we went private although we hadn't expected it to be cheaper.
Rather than save money we went for more time as the private carers are more flexible in what they can do. So spare time is spent doing some light housework (laundry mainly, a bit of general tidying/cleaning if time) or on difficult days simply sitting with her for a chat and a cup of tea.

The private carers are great, worth every penny and more. They also form small local networks for mutual cover in emergencies (just a handful, we met them before making the change to private). The striking thing is that each of became independent service providers for reasons above.

I'd also echo the comment upthread about attendance allowance, they may qualify at the higher level especially if they need someone on "speed dial" at night.

It's marvellous compared to the 70's, very little ito social care for anything. Family had to provide care, we are very lucky

In the 70's this would have come more frequently under health care and there were geriatric and convalescence hospitals providing longer turm nursing care and convalescence care. People who would have gone to them are now sent home with a "package" of a couple of visits a day and if they have no family who can down tools to fill the gaps then lord help them.

Then as now though, its assumed by health care and social care providers that daughters /nieces will fill any gaps in care, irrespective of their own capacity to provide help.

Yes, in the 1970s my great gran fell and broke her hip. Once she was discharged from hospital she went to a convalescent home, where they got her walking again before she was sent home. This was all on the NHS. Compare that with today, when my elderly Mum fell, she was home the next day with three broken ribs and a strapped up wrist, and was told that Occupational Health would be round to assess her in the next 7 days. She fell out of bed the next night and ended up back in hospital with another broken rib and a sprained ankle. Fortunately I was staying, otherwise she would probably have died.

I just remember my mum looking after all the old people in the neighbourhood because care provision was that bad.
She was awarded a lifetime achievement award for services to elderly social care, before she died.
She worked tirelessly for people who had no family to help, as the state provision was non existent.

It is regrettable that communities can be designed in or designed out, and nobody ensures the better option. A block of flats can be a street where people look out for neighbours, if the front doors are along a wide walkway, where people can tend their 'front gardens' and sit on chairs when the sun goes in that direction. It needs only an extremely narrow defensible 'own curtilage' to become a mini front garden, without obstructing passage. The back 'garden', of course, should be a private balcony on any rear window. Opening doors to communal balconies at the ends of corridors allows a vital through draught in hot weather. Presumably they would be, like the other corridor fire doors, triggered shut at a signal.

An old East Ender explained how council blocks would allocate the end flats to older people, so they saw more people on their way to the stairs, and they would usually house adult family close to siblings or parents. By having fairly stable, long term residents without 'churn' and with a certainty antisocial behaviour wouldn't be allowed, it made a good atmosphere for all. There was always someone to keep an eye out or run an errand. The older people could be relied on to take in parcels, or keep a spare key. The younger ones knew where a familiar person could be asked for advice, or for babysitting emergency.

It probably wasn't as good as she remembered, but it sounded better than a modern block with a corridor with an end wall totally blocked off and completely dark, but which is due south facing, and could easily have had a french door balcony instead, and be flooded with light, allowing people to have plants outside their door, and the excuse to spend a little time where they would catch sight of neighbours passing their door, or even go out to tend some
communal planting on the balcony.
Someone leaving after five years said neighbours have barely spotted one another, let alone had reason to speak, in all those years.

She worked tirelessly for people who had no family to help, as the state provision was non existent

People still do, families still bear the brunt of it but now they are providing a lot of care which used to be classified as "health care" in convalescence and similar hospitals.

Its simply not true to say "we are lucky" and that things are better now. Daughters and nieces are still assumed by health care to be available, more likely to be still working and are expected to pick up the slack for people who are still very ill and needing treatment, not just purely social care.

Yes, but these people had no daughters and nieces, they were on their own and just left.
We are very fortunate in this day and age, I hate Cons would never vote for them and yes in recent years healthcare and care in the community isn't what it was, but it's still much better than generations gone.

yes, obviously there are differences of experience, but not so long ago women received their state pension at 60, so might have been more available to care for others.
also, there used to be council care homes which were free, and accessed if a social worker deemed a person unable to look after themselves.

private care homes, a bit like private schooling, was an expensive rarity, for those who did not want to mingle with hoi poloi, so would pay to avoid them.
the council also provided home helps, directly employed, who were cheerful capable local middle-aged women, knew the community and often the people they were sent to. would do most anything that was needed to keep a person in their own home. also free.

district nurses and auxillaries provided attention for medical related needs, inc many things which now have to be done by careworkers.
granted there were fewer people to cater for, but along with long stay/ convalescent hospitals, the public provision for older people's needs was much greater.
the false distinction between social care and medical need had not yet been invented, so as to hive off and monetise social care needs.

OP has not come back ? i would get rid of that agency. start again.
as for the self employed careworker who said she does not use PPE unless the client has symptoms !
where have you been for the last 6 months.
is that not negligent endangerment.
she seems to be only concerned whether she might catch something from the client. far more likely to carry something to her. esp without PPE. how can you justify that. ?

Haven't read the full thread but I work in this area and it is beyond appalling that the carers are not wearing masks. I have personally walked in on such situations and have raised incident reports each time.
In our area we all feel that covid was spread from house to house by carers back in the spring. Carers were often the only people going in to the properties.
Last week I caught a DPD driver in a sheltered accommodation facility without a mask.
So thoughtless and neglectful. It's one thing not wearing a mask in a shop, quite another in a building designed for vulnerable people.

For £25k I would commission my own carers directly and cut out the agency entirely. The carers will be on around £9 per hour, my guess is that your parents are paying the agency £18-£28 per hour. Place an advert and see who applies. For £25k you should get some decent quality applicants who can add a bit of quality to their lives, take them for a drive to the seaside etc.
I'm a fully qualified health professional with 30 years experience, I work 22 hours a week for less than £25k.
And I'm top of band 6.

Hi all,

Wow. I generally wasn’t expecting this many helpful responses. Thank you everyone who’s taken the time to respond. Sorry for the delay in getting back on; I have small children and weekend days are basically not a time I can text let alone write a decent response haha. I really thought I’d get like 2 replies.

Many of your responses are so insightful, thank you! this is all very new to me (and my siblings). Things have happened quickly with my dad’s decline; it’s been obvious in the last few weeks alone.

I will check the care contract and the arrangement. Also look into getting a private carer/ carers instead of using agency.

We are having a family “meeting” this weekend to go through all the paperwork.
I don’t know if the carers have been given an actual clear breakdown of what needs to be done weekly/ daily. I don’t know what’s been communicated as its all through my mum and she doesn’t want to tell us! She thinks we’re going to cancel the carers completely (paranoid).

We will also apply for the Attendance Allowance, thanks for recommending all these things everyone that commented.
Social services will be around again in around 2 weeks (date TBC) and they will do a needs assessment considering his recent diagnosis.

To the person who suggested I give up my job to help my parents. How am I going to be any better than professionals? I don’t get that assumption that I should drop my life completely. I already go around there 3 times a week and am sure that will increase. I don’t want to go into my whole family background (its too identifying tbh) but no way could I handle being around my mother every day.

Not everyone had a great childhood, not everyone can dismiss years of abuse just because someone is old. Also, my mum is not disabled or helpless, she just won’t do anything. She barely gets out of bed every day and neglects my dad. Hence why we need carers to help with the load.