Are carers taking the piss?

[londewy123]

Hi all, I'd really appreciate some advice for others who might have been through the same situation.

My retired parents have hired carers to come to their house 3 times a day, 7 days a week for 1 hour per visit recently- they hired them within the last month.

Dad has (3 days ago) been diagnosed with vascular dementia and my mum has had servere, demolishing depression for 4 years.

Dad doesn't really want carers but needs them to prepare meals, wash up and do basic things like take out the bins.

My concern is recently I've been off work to take dad to appointments and if i randomly come in the house:

X The carers aren't wearing PPE at all!
X They're late by 30 minutes to an hour for their start time- no call or explanation!
X the carers don't seem to do abything; don't engage with parents, house is a shit heap, no washing has been done, floor really obviously dirty, fridge empty almost as if a carer hasn't even been in, let alone three in any 24 hour period!! 7 days a week!! I went in today randomly and the fridge was full of empty food packets. Nothing had been done.

It's heart breaking. I can't afford to give up my job (my own family depend on it).

Should I complain to the carer company? Am I expecting too much?! Wtf, this is the first really experience I've had with carers.

My parents are paying £25,400 PER YEAR for carers to come in 3 times a day, every day per year.

Am I being unreasonable to think they should wear PPE, actually mop the floor, wash clothes? Ensure fridge is semi full of food?
It's so depressing to feel my parents are being taken advantage of.

I work full time and am there when I can be,, hence why we've employed carers!!

more monitoring. should be poor monitoring sorry!

THOSE carers sound like they are taking the piss but most do not so I think you're being very unreasonable to tar all with the same brush.

They are not following basic rules so I suggest you stop complaining online and sack them to ensure your parents are being kept safe and having their basic needs such as food met. Or is that too much effort for you to put in??

That’s a lot of money and a lot of care hours.
I would suggest asking the local authority to undertake a needs assessment and help plan for their needs. The assessment is free and they might be entitled to some free or cheaper support.

Perhaps consider reducing care hours (agency should have provided a comprehensive assessment of needs and a detailed care plan). Try and get Lasting Power of Attorney whilst it’s still possible. That gives you right to information and decision making.

Replace some caring hours with a part-time housekeeper. Unless they need help with washing themselves, going to the lavatory or medicines etc a housekeeper who can cook and shop would be far better value for money.

Anyone providing personal care must be registered to do so. Housekeepers employed directly wouldn’t need to be but you’d want to check references carefully.

Hospital transport should take your father to appointments and reduce the burden on you, unless you want to hear what is said.

Your parents may benefit from a live in carer to support them. Probably wouldn't cost much different.

@boydoggies

Your parents may benefit from a live in carer to support them. Probably wouldn't cost much different.

To cover 24/7 would require a minimum of three carers. Where are OP's parents to keep them all? And of course they would become their employers so they'd have tax, NI and insurance to deal with. Not to mention all the other employment hassles.

Those carers sound aweful! Proper carers will keep the house spotless and really care about your parents and fulfill all their needs. Maybe write a list of what you expect on every visit so every carer is clear of what they need to do. Once they get in a routine it shouldn't be hard to keep on top of personal care and housework and they should be wearing masks

I am a community carer and I will answer In the order you asked

Yes absolutely they should be wearing ppe , mask , gloves and apron should be being worn and disposed of at the end of the visit .The gloves should be changed after personal care and a new pair for making food .
Being late Without knowing what it says in the care plan about times this is one that you need to find out what time they are actually due and if they are late then they should be letting your parent's know. If we are running behind we always let the person know .
Carer's are carer's not cleaners. We will for example mop the floor , put the washing machine on if it is in the care plan , light housework but not full on cleaning. The food in the fridge that and I don't want sound harsh is not the carer's responsibility. Unless you actually ask for a separate shopping call where the carer's have a time to do your parents shopping. But if it was me I would be flagging up the lack of food In the fridge to my employer so that it was sorted .
You need to see a copy of the care plan, this will then answer what actually the carer's are going in to do .They should also be documenting the time they arrive and leave and also what they did whilst In your parents house. It will either be In the folder with the care plan there should be a copy in your parents house or it may be completed electronically. Either way there should be a care plan.
Who set up the care package, was it a social worker or done by your mum .If it was set up by a social worker then you also need to speak to them regarding your concerns.

Agree with what much of the previous posters have said regarding the role of the carers, but I would also add in what are your parents allowing the carers to do?

I find with some if my patients particularly when carers start they are reluctant to allow them to do things.... carers build relationships and learn to work with clients ( persuasion etc) but it may be your parents are telling them 'not to bother with xyz today,' especially if the carer is running late?

They could otoh be shoddy carers, they are out there too!

I’ve worked as a carer and basically it is to help with washing, dressing,
taking medication. Meals could be microwaved or a sandwich or easily prepared meals like scrambled egg. I have done shopping for some clients, they usually gave me cash and I returned with the shopping, receipt and change. Agency staff are overworked and underpaid. Often given ridiculous schedules that lead them to run late all day. Agencies charge ridiculous fees to clients and pay carers as little as they can.
Cleaning is not usually included in care work apart from basic stuff like wiping down work surfaces. I have been employed privately through DASH which is organised through the local council. I think that it gives a better service than an agency and is better value for money for the client. They have control of the hours they need and how much they pay, cutting out the agency. Also better to have carers you know and can trust rather than different ones from an agency every day,

www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/practical-support/getting-care-and-support/direct-payments

Not to disregard the rest of your post OP but firstly can I clarify if your parents are paying the carers from their own pockets? If so, could they not pay you this money if you are willing to care for them but cannot afford to lose your wage?

Do you pay privately or Council run
Op?

My dad had careers in
(He passed earlier in year) arranged via social services and the local council which he paid a certain amount of money for 2 x 30 min visits daily. Most of the time it was quick wash and change into pjs because they were rushing into the next job. He never got the 30 minutes EVER.

Look at the care plan and speak to their team.

[quote SBTLove]@Aridane
As an employer OP can do the same checks as an agency, many of whom employ staff with no experience as long as they pass a cbs/pvg check[/quote]
No - checks were just one if the many things I mentioned in my post that an agency offers that hiring a near ‘random’ cannot

And not the decent agencies (speaking from experience!)

@boydoggies

Your parents may benefit from a live in carer to support them. Probably wouldn't cost much different.

Live in care would be significantly more expensive (I suspect)

They are taking the piss yes. Get rid of these and be v careful as this industry has a lot of dodgy people in it.

I’ve had five experiences with ‘carers’ regarding various parts of my family. One carer is brilliant, loving and appreciated. Two were actual thieves who managed to steal significant quantities of cash and jewellery which was never recovered. One who wasn’t a thief took advantage (sat around smoking claiming she was ‘keeping the old dear company’ when my relative didn’t want to chat and just wanted the cleaning done). The other one persuaded my relative to change their will and has now inherited 90% of their assets and moved to the Med, that ‘carer’ will never need to work again.

Huh this wasn’t supposed to sound like such an advert for ripping off the elderly but basically my experience has been that there are far more bad guys than good in this industry.

Finding good carers is difficult OP. We’ve experienced similar with elderly aunt. They come late but finish early too, and sometimes don’t show up at all, but when complaining they produce timesheets with their correct start and finish times, so are clearly conning their employers too. We’ve installed cameras there now so we can watch and check remotely. It makes life easier, but the reality is that care in the community needs a massive overhaul to make it fit for purpose. Usually the carers are on minimum wage so don’t attract the right kind of applicants.

I'm a carer. If I was attending a meal call I would not mop floors or clean a fridge or go shopping. I'd assume a cleaning call and shopping call was in place. Cleaning and shopping generally aren't tacked on with meal calls. They're separate.

We do morning calls (up, washed, dressed, meds and breakfast and wash supper pots and utensils we used while prepping breakfast), lunch (wash breakfast pots, prep lunch - meds and toileting if required). Dinner calls (wash lunch pots, prep dinner, meds and personal care if required) and bed calls (wash, dress for bed, meds, escort to bed, wash dinner pots and empty bins)

That's all I would do in your parents case. You need to lower the call times to 30 mins each and a weekly cleaning and shopping call if you want more than this. The care plan should lay out what is expected on each call and I'd be highly surprised if mopping the kitchen floor was included in a meal call.

Carers do do cleaning but it's light cleaning (vac, mop, iron and fold laundry, wash counter tops, clean toilet and sink, change bedding)

That is awful, @Skysblue - I am so glad my mother is with a decent agency with experienced decent carers and I am very sorry for your experience

To cover 24/7 [Live in] would require a minimum of three carers

Not unless the client needs 24 hour professional care.

One person living in as carer/housekeeper with appropriate hours off is a common model both for people needing more than the odd hour of care and temporary respite where families provide support and don't want to use residential care for respite.

However I agree its not going to be cheaper.

@Aridane self employed carers ( like myself) are not randoms and we do have to have all the proper checks and insurance.
Using an independent carer provides consider reliable care that is often cheaper and better quality than agencies. Ultimately we have more to loose if a client isn't happy than we would if we worked for an agency. We can also set our own rates so are being paid a reasonable wage.

Consistent!

The firm they are with is obviously unfit to be in the business and should be reported before causing deaths. Arguably, they are criminally negligent, if they have staff who would dream of going from house to house without protection from spreading covid.

Parents sound as if they need cleaners and shoppers and befriending, chatty carers (possibly to take them out in good weather?) That will involve a team, and they will ideally be directly employed by you and keep an eye and contact you if there is something you need to know, including if there is a problem with the house or the garden, or the parents or one of the other staff. Think what you yourself would do for your parents, if you waved a wand and cloned yourself, and lived next door with nothing else to do. Whatever that is, put it the contract.

Obviously, open c.c.t.v. is the best friend of the staff, as well as yours and your parents. (Back up of hidden cameras does no harm). The staff will know it protects them, so if someone ever accuses someone, there will be proof it never happened, or at least proof it wasn't them. For example if a parent stumbles or falls, and later someone notices bruises, the camera will show the details. Or, as can easily happen, a forgetful person might have, for instance, used a banknote to pay the window cleaner, then wonder where the banknote went, leaving everyone upset if there is suspicion it went missing. The footage would soon show the window cleaner being paid with the note, and clear up solve the puzzle.

oops I selected the wrong answer sorry - YANNNNBU

@Nonamesavail

I dont think an hour is long enough. I'm a self employed carer and I wouldn't think an hour was enough for anything other than care. I also do not wear ppe unless anyone had symptoms.

An hour is ample long enough! In that time I am able to get someone up out of bed, strip wash or shower them and get them dried and dressed, assist them downstairs, administer medications and make breakfast and hot drink. If a call doesn't require having a shower I can easily manage to strip and change the bed, hoover round and wipe the kitchen and bathroom over. As for you not wearing PPE you wouldn't be setting a foot anywhere near any of my loved one!!