To believe that providing free meals for children

[Completelyfrozen]

Is not enough!
I hear people saying that children shouldn't go hungry and I wholeheartedly agree. It is a travesty in 2020 that any child goes hungry, regardless of the reason behind it, but is that where our responsibility as a society ends?
I want to live in a society where children are provided with a hot meal every day.
A warm dry bed to sleep in at night.
Warm clean dry clothes.
Facilities to wash and brush their teeth.
Warm dry shoes.
An adequate education.
Opportunities to play and socialise.
A safe environment to grow up in.
A home free from damp or mould.
I want to live in a society where adults have access to hot water and washing facilities so they can keep themselves and their children clean.
What can we do, as a nation to address these issues so that children have their most basic requirements met?
YABU - Providing one hot meal per day is enough and parents should provide the rest, despite their circumstances. It is not the govts responsibility to provide anything more.
YANBU - Providing one free meal a day is just the start but as a society, we need to do much much more to ensure children are provided these basic needs and if the parents cannot provide these basic items for any reason, then the govt has a responsibility to step in and provide them.

@raskolnikova

"Send a clear message that children are expensive and have needs for eighteen years so ensure you are prepared to meet those regardless of circumstances changing."

But it's impossible to predict circumstances changing over the course of 18 years; if people shouldn't have children unless they know they could provide financially if, say, they lost their business in the middle of a pandemic, then only the very rich would be able to (and that would create its own problems).

Something are impossible to forecast I agree but a relationship breakdown or job loss are very common. There are ways to protect against things, ensure savings are built up pre and after children, limit family size to the amount that either parent could support themselves on their individual salary, don’t not work or do a token few hours etc.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

I honestly don’t think I could of future proofed my life any more than I had. I owned my own car and home, ran a successful business with my father for 12 years, had a (small) cushion of savings. Things changed and my life went into complete free fall, before I knew it I was haemorrhaging money.

[quote Faynite]**@jasjas1973* Workhouse here we come!!!!*

I don’t understand this comment. Are you saying jobs in supermarkets / warehouses are akin to a workhouse and people should not be expected to fill them?[/quote]
There are not enough jobs in Aldi etc, these jobs attract 100s of applicants for each vacancy.
These companies can employ those with the very best education and work ethic.
Inadequate parents are not going to be employed, even if they could find childcare/transport to said shop/warehouse, so based on the views expressed by many on here, the re introduction of the poor/workhouse for the undeserving poor is an inevitable conclusion.

You don't want to be accosted by child beggars, you don't want to pay for childrens food, nor the lifestyle choices of their parents.. so what is the alternative to the workhouse?

Of course money won't change everything but when you're worried sick about how you're going to feed your kids you spend less time worrying about how you're going to discipline or educate them. Life becomes about survival
Very true.

In Franco's Spain (and some time after), babies were removed from undesirable parents (political opponents, single mothers, poorer people), and given to desirable ones. I believe it's happened in other countries too. I do wonder how popular it would be here 🤔

It can be about the choices you make, seeing the bigger or long term picture. For example I know (and have seen similar posted on here) of people who would say with respect to a potential job, it's not worth me taking that, I'll barely be any better off than if I wasn't working. So they hang on waiting for a better paying job or one which is school hours only so they can avoid childcare costs.

But they fail to see that job might lead to a promotion or an internal move, or other opportunity, maybe not in a month but in 6 months or 12, which would then make them much better off - and which opportunity they will have missed, because the old adage that it's easier to get a job when you're in a job is true. I appreciate this doesn't apply to everyone but it certainly does to some. You could think I'm in an ivory tower with a job that pays well and no mortgage, but I've got there by working full time since my children were small, being out for up to 12 hours a day, working to pay for childcare. I did it because childcare costs will reduce/ disappear over time as kids get older.

Things do change unexpectedly.

I ended up a single parent when DH had an affair. He lied about his income (company director) to pay absolute minimum CSA.

I was left with 4 DC. I’d been a SAHM for a few years.

I went to a temp agency the next week and applied for every part time job I could get. Had twins still in nursery so was paying for 80% of their childcare costs, as well as after school and holiday clubs - so full time seemed impossible, also I was the only parent to take time off for sickness and emergencies.

I took an minimum admin job three full days a week, it was all I could get locally that was part time. By the time I paid for parking, petrol, childcare contribution I think I was earning less than I would have on full benefits. A colleague suggested I would he better doing this, I was under a lot of stress and also had hospital apts to get one child to a lot.

I should have done as I ended up ill with exhaustion. I didn’t want to “live on benefits” though, with the associated stigma you see on here. No free school meals at this point as I earned more then £7,500.

After two years, I decided to train as a teacher, which meant we lived on a student loan for a year. My petrol costs were huge, just to get to placement and back, never mind anything else.

I was buying things like a new washing machine and kids Christmas presents on credit cards, sometimes the food shopping. I remember a day where I was walking around the supermarket with something like £2.55 in my pocket, wondering how we would get through the next few days.

My children would ask for £1 each for non school uniform day and I would have to take it out of our budget for the week. World book day - an absolute panic and more on credit card (and yes, in theory I should have “whipped something up” but I was bloody exhausted and short of time whilst marking and working every night, and it was all very competitive already ).

People don’t realise how much that sort of stuff affects you, when your children don’t have the same as the others. I spoke to the head about not being able to afford school camp - she offered to let me pay in instalments. I didn’t have the money.

Thank goodness my children had free school meals during this period.

I didn’t expect to end up in that situation. I’m not anymore. I won’t forget it though and I will not begrudge anyone free meals for their children when they have such a low income. I also wouldn’t judge parents who didn’t work or train and who spent a few years just keeping themselves and their children mentally above water - we all do what we are capable of, and some people already have the odds stacked against them more than others.

I certainly won’t begrudge parents for having a tv, or getting their kids an iPad for school work, or getting the odd take away or having a glass of wine in the evening either; for goodness sake, we aren’t giving people income support with the deal being that the whole family live in rags in as miserable an existence as possible. I hope not anyway

Anyone can find themself in the situation. It is a horrible situation to be in, heat or eat when I was poor the DC always ate I didn't.
Thankfully I got back to work. The safety net of a benefit system for people is really important some people take the piss and use it as their lifes income.
Some are in dire areas where there is no employment and no opportunities.
Hardly anyone worked when I was a kid now most people I know work because the opportunities are there through investment.
Longterm job opportunities with good pay in rundown areas is needed to change the future.

And btw, I didn’t take the minimum wage job just because of the hours, minimum wage was all I could get after being a SAHM mum for several years, despite my precious qualifications and experience, I didn’t even get interviews for the first admin jobs they put my name forward for. There is a lesson in that. However, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

*previous

(And 20% of their childcare costs, not 80% 🤦🏻‍♀️)

NewAndImprovedMe I agree, anyone's circumstances can change, I'm now a single parent through being widowed, not what I had planned. Financial problems is one of the number one causes of stress for people who get cancer, as their whole income is affected by their inability to work, hospital transport costs and so on. You really never know what is around the corner. You sound like you are picking yourself up though, despite everything. Good luck!

@Deadgoldfish
Your post made me tear up. You sound great. I hope you are happy in your new career x

I am lucky I have had a lot of support from family which has allowed me to buy my house, but good job too as my job is just above minimum wage and my husband can,t work. I do say there but the grace of god go I because I know many people do not have generous family to support them and it doesn,t take much to turn ones life upside down. (Such as been diagnosed with a life changing condition.). However even when I had debts and juggling overdraft and having to ask for a mortgage break that month, my children were still fed.

@Deadgoldfish

Your post has given me a lot of hope that I can turn things around! You sound like a very strong and capable person.

@Poppingnostopping

I’m sorry to hear you were widowed. There really are some things we have no control over. I hope life is going well for you.

Thank you for your well wishes.

So the tax payer bears the entire cost of raising other people’s children, while the parents just have the privilege of giving birth?

I agree with you op but think you’re being too simplistic. For some children unless they are taken into care their parents will never provide these things even if the state funds them.

For others, where the parents do care and do try then yes the state should step up, but they arguably do already, and any gap should be closed, but sadly often it’s not as simple as chucking money at the problem.

OP I can't vote but you are absolutely not unreasonable in wanting to nurture and foster the future generations. To say, "parents should be responsible," implies that parents make a conscious decision to have a child and neglect them. That's simply not true. There are many, many reasons why a parent can't provide for a child - job losses, furlough, ill health, some parents genuinely don't know what their child should/shouldn't eat to keep healthy. Of course there are a minority of selfish tw*ts who will see their child go without but does the parent being an arsehole make the child less deserving? As the child of such a parent i hope not, and am forever grateful that other members of my family and the State stepped in to help.

@DBML

This breaks my heart and I don’t know what the answer is, but know that throwing more money at people like this is not it.

What a shame that when he phoned at 15 someone didn’t step in to help....

I would like to see children like this provided with an actual hot meal through the holidays, ideally with somewhere safe to go and have it. Definitely not vouchers or more cash which would be a complete waste.

Parenting classes may help?, stricter deterrents?

We do seem to have become a society where people’s perceived rights seem to have overshadowed personal responsibility and I personally don’t like the way it’s going.

who are we to judge

As the people expected to foot the bill, we are absolutely within our rights to judge.

To say, "parents should be responsible," implies that parents make a conscious decision to have a child and neglect them. That's simply not true

It is in many instances, posters are telling stories about how the father fucked off and didn’t pay child maintenance properly, lied about their income. That is a conscious decision to neglect your child. It is also not unusual.

There should be a way to make these fuckers pay, the automatic solution shouldn’t be the state steps in and provides free meals and tech and additional benefits because the father refuses to do their share.

When two people decide to have a child then they both remain responsible. One poster was talking about how she was wondering how she’d survive with a couple of quid in her pocket. If the father had not lied and paid his share for his own kids she’d not have been in that position.

It’s very different when circumstances change, both parents are trying their best, but need help, they should be provided it.

But when one fucks off, or the kids are being brought up with arseholes who’d rather spend money on booze or fags rather than provide a hot meal ans a warm bed, then it’s a much more complicated scenario than chucking money at it.

But to argue no one neglects their kids is absolute nonsense.

What work ethic do children grow up with if it’s always about getting?

The list in the OP is ridiculous.

Only the very very rich can future proof their life from long term illness or accidents. Probably 90% of the population are a car accident or serious illness away from needing help from the benefits system. The vast majority of claimants have been or are tax payers and have every right to access this help and continue to live with a shred of dignity.

@Watermelon999

No, throwing money at parents like this does not help at all.

DHs mother actually got a large inheritance of around 150,000 and blew it all within a year on herself. Her logic was that if she saved it she might have to pay towards her own care in retirement. She gave nothing to her children and she will leave nothing to her children.

Their whole lives she has given them zilch and that includes the money that was supposed to go to them from the government. That’s why I agree with you that throwing money at the problem, isn’t going to solve it.