To believe that providing free meals for children

[Completelyfrozen]

Is not enough!
I hear people saying that children shouldn't go hungry and I wholeheartedly agree. It is a travesty in 2020 that any child goes hungry, regardless of the reason behind it, but is that where our responsibility as a society ends?
I want to live in a society where children are provided with a hot meal every day.
A warm dry bed to sleep in at night.
Warm clean dry clothes.
Facilities to wash and brush their teeth.
Warm dry shoes.
An adequate education.
Opportunities to play and socialise.
A safe environment to grow up in.
A home free from damp or mould.
I want to live in a society where adults have access to hot water and washing facilities so they can keep themselves and their children clean.
What can we do, as a nation to address these issues so that children have their most basic requirements met?
YABU - Providing one hot meal per day is enough and parents should provide the rest, despite their circumstances. It is not the govts responsibility to provide anything more.
YANBU - Providing one free meal a day is just the start but as a society, we need to do much much more to ensure children are provided these basic needs and if the parents cannot provide these basic items for any reason, then the govt has a responsibility to step in and provide them.

@zatarontoast

cantdothisnow considering we are a develop ed nation the educational disparity is utterly shocking in NT children, but when you consider SEN provision the figure falls through the floor.

When people moan about the feckless poor they don't consider the factors that can lead to this.

I was thrown into this world (SEN Education or the lack of) 4 years ago. I've had many meetings with my MP and local conservative councillors who actually do not see, or don't want to see, that failing these children from an education and mental health perspective is short sighted and is kicking the problem down the line.

These children will turn into adults who will most likely rely on benefits, if they were invested in now then it doesn't have to be that way!

It's not that hard to grasp is it?

Yet money is squandered on denying these children .

www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/digital-media/blog/councils-squander-sen-childrens-funding

Makes my blood boil.

@RunBackwards

The children from families most in need of this support are far more likely to be excluded from school, regardless of any SN, so no they don't get adequate education. And don't kid yourselves it's because they're bad kids, it's because their lives are ones of such crisis they can't prioritise school rules and schools use every opportunity to get rid of their most challenging/lower achieving students.

For example we've (PRU) just taken on a child excluded for swearing at the teacher who publically humiliated him for his scruffy uniform. Now, maybe it wasn't the first time, probably the child is often railing against authority and injustice but the system has no place for them and certainly doesn't want to ensure they get properly educated, that's only for "decent" people.

that's appalling but unsurprising. Poor child.

There needs to more help for working parents that are just about managing (JAMS) it's all well and good for the parents on benefits but what about us working single mums who work but still struggle financially ?? We get zero help.

I want all the things you want too OP. My issue is about the cause of those things not being able to be provided by the parents. There is a reason parents cant provide foods warmth, clean clothes, a safe place to sleep, to their children. Every parent wants to be able to provide those things. I feel like the state providing them is just putting a sticking plaster over the bigger issue of parents being unable to provide them themselves. More focus needs to be on fixing the root issues, which I imagine is much harder than throwing money at it and asking the state (or now, the goodwill of people in the absence of the state) to provide.

The root issues go back decades, in some families there will be generation after generation repeating the same cycle. I know that when my mum grew up in the 1950s, when I grew up in the 1980s, even when the poverty gap was much less, there were always parents who didn't or couldn't provide for their child's needs. Alcohol issues, abusive partners, poor money management, are just some of the reasons. But more money in benefits doesn't solve those problems.

@contrmary

YABU, but your choices are unfair. Parents should provide IT ALL. The state shouldn't need to provide "free" (strangely someone else still pays) at all.

This. Nobody should be having kids they can’t afford; it’s not up to the state to pay for them.

This is my first post but I have lurked daily on MN since my husband left 5 years ago.

I’m posting mainly so people can understand the benefit cap.

Up until 2016 I owned my own home and had been working anything up to 80 hours a week within our family business. My husband left for another woman when I was pregnant with our 4th child, this led to a massive decline in my mental health. Ultimately, I wasn’t able to function and we had to enter voluntary Liquidation. Myself and eventually my parents lost our homes. After renting privately for 3 years myself and my children became “homeless” in that we spent 6 months sofa surfing before I managed to secure a privately rented 3 bedroom house at £1,300 per month (within our lha - south east town). In May last year I was sacked from my part time job for being signed off sick, the beginnings of an breakdown. April this year we were hit with the benefit cap, our universal credit reduced to £1298 and the only other income I had was £61 a week child benefit. My ex-husbands small limited business was massively affected by the pandemic and he could no longer pay maintenance. I attempted suicide twice. People’s circumstances can and do change.

I am much stronger now, slowly building myself up with a lot of support from social services and now early help. The cap has been removed as I was eventually (7 months after the 29 day timescale universal credit specify for triggering assessment) assessed as unable to work until August next year. I am very anxious as to whether I will find work in time and end up capped again but am using this time to build myself up. I feel ashamed that at 37, I am for the first time since I was 13 relying upon benefits.

Please understand, benefits are no fun, we aren’t all having a ball. It is bloody hard and for me, soul destroying.

Rosebel

I know lots of people who have experienced huge hardship without resorting to requiring assistance from the state. My extended family strongly believe in helping and supporting each other.

The problem is money cannot replace parents in teaching life skills like budgeting, family cooking, saving, mending clothes, the value of making good long term choices. It is a vicious cycle, and takes generations and generations of education to break.

Money provided direct to families who won't use it well does not a jot to help.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Rosebel

I know lots of people who have experienced huge hardship without resorting to requiring assistance from the state. My extended family strongly believe in helping and supporting each other.

The problem is money cannot replace parents in teaching life skills like budgeting, family cooking, saving, mending clothes, the value of making good long term choices. It is a vicious cycle, and takes generations and generations of education to break.

Money provided direct to families who won't use it well does not a jot to help.

It's the old hierarchy of needs though. Of course money won't change everything but when you're worried sick about how you're going to feed your kids you spend less time worrying about how you're going to discipline or educate them. Life becomes about survival.

But the government already gives so much money. How much should it give? If everyone is just given everything, why would they work? Do some reading about communist states who have had periods of providing everything to people for free (China is a good one) and see how they turned out (famine....).

[quote mercutio12]**@jasjas1973

A healthy pair of adults should not be relying on benefits to feed their children. There are plenty of jobs out there - Aldi are hiring, warehouses etc. Of course there should be support for those who genuinely can't work, but I don't know how it got to this point where healthy people are given free handouts for years and people like you are horrified at anyone who questions it.[/quote]
Workhouse here we come!!!!

You assume families have two parents? define healthy? physical or mental?
You don't appear to have a clue how many people live in this country, their levels of education, their own upbring (or lack off) housing, benefits sanctions.

What you are doing is punishing children for (in your view) the errors of their parents.

R4 this had an interview with a head teacher who said children are taking food from the school to take back to feed their preschool siblings.

By all means have a wider debate/action on the hows and whys but hungry kids cannot wait for this to happen, so we all need to act now.

It depends what you think the point of a goverment is though. If you believe the goverment exist just to make money for big business and keep control of the population whilst promoting a survival of the fittest culture, you have a more Tory set up...
If, like me you think a government should provide the conditions for people to succeed and thrive, you have a more socialist set up. Although i think many velieve if the state provide it all, people wont work. What the state needs to do is provide enough work so that people can earn enough money to survive rather than have big business squeeze us all further to line their pockets.

Beleive*

This. Nobody should be having kids they can’t afford; it’s not up to the state to pay for them

Sounds like this would get your support......

In England, Wales and Ireland (but not in Scotland)[1] a poorhouse was more commonly known as a workhouse. Before the introduction of the Poor Laws, each parish would maintain its own workhouse and often these rural 'poor houses' would be simple farms with the occupants dividing their times between working the farm and employed on maintaining local roads and other parish works. An example of one such is Strand House in East Sussex. In the early Victorian era (see Poor Law), poverty was seen as a dishonorable state. As depicted by Charles Dickens, a workhouse could resemble a reformatory, often housing whole families, or a penal labour regime giving manual work to the indigent and subjecting them to physical punishment. At many poorhouses/workhouses, men and women were split up with no communication between them

@NewAndImprovedMe

Thank you. I’m sorry for what you’re going through. Life can be shit.

Are you aware of Discretionary Housing Payments? Not all councils do them but most do- and I’ll be honest, I’m not sure how likely they are to give them but this might be worth looking into should the cap be applied again.

You would need to look on your local council website.

CiderJolly,

I don’t know how to tag people, sorry!

I am, at the time my mental health was at such a low point I couldn’t cope with doing the forms. I am hopeful that by this time next year I will be employed, I have experience and qualifications in business management and bookkeeping so I’m considering a distance learning accounting course as well. I also have a lot of years experience in care work which is something I’ll happily go back to, I just need to keep working on myself and rebuild my confidence and self esteem.

Thank you!

Parents should provide everything for their children. This is not always the case and is not always possible.

We can all help even if in a small way. I spent 3 hours this week delivering winter coats and school uniform to families in need.

BooFuckingHoo2 Our energy bill alone is more than £150.00! Add on water £50 .00 ,phone at least £25.00/£30.00 TV licence and so on an I make it at least £200 .00 without Transport costs ! Also rent and any "debts" run up .Also childrens clothes and shoes (Perhaps they should all go Barefoot?!)There is no magic solution to this age old problem obv ,but it is truly tragic that kids go to school hungry these days!

I hate this idea no-one should have children they can't support. Lots of people are going to be out of work soon, what are they supposed to do with their children? No one knew this pandemic was going to happen but even without that people can sometimes no longer afford the basics. Job loss, illness, divorce, death of a partner, maybe think before spouting judgemental nonsense.

@contrmary

YABU, but your choices are unfair. Parents should provide IT ALL. The state shouldn't need to provide "free" (strangely someone else still pays) at all.

Agree, parents are the ones that should be paying.

If we have to have the state step in I’d rather it was more social workers and new laws to make parents step up where needed.

Fair/living wages wouldn’t change much, other skills jobs would just command higher rates and prices in general would go up. Plus many households choose to have one parent not working or doing a few hours and so wage is irrelevant in those circumstances.

Send a clear message that children are expensive and have needs for eighteen years so ensure you are prepared to meet those regardless of circumstances changing.

considering we are a develop ed nation the educational disparity is utterly shocking in NT children, but when you consider SEN provision the figure falls through the floor

The problem I think lies in primary school education
When I was at school many years ago I remember the teacher having a discussion with us that his job and that of primary schools was to make sure we knew the basics.
That everyone should be able to read, write, spell and having a grounding of maths.
Secondary school was where you studied subjects in more depth.

All the subjects done at primary were taught to everyone and for those that were brighter they would naturally do more in-depth work and for those that weren’t then they would write and draw what they could.

It meant that virtually everyone left school with some form of literacy

Now if you can’t read or write by the time you are in year 3 then you are left behind.

"Send a clear message that children are expensive and have needs for eighteen years so ensure you are prepared to meet those regardless of circumstances changing."

But it's impossible to predict circumstances changing over the course of 18 years; if people shouldn't have children unless they know they could provide financially if, say, they lost their business in the middle of a pandemic, then only the very rich would be able to (and that would create its own problems).

@jasjas1973 Workhouse here we come!!!!

I don’t understand this comment. Are you saying jobs in supermarkets / warehouses are akin to a workhouse and people should not be expected to fill them?

My husband came from a deprived home.
His mother spent the kids uniform grant on fags and the pub. Any other help she got for the kids was spent on ‘luxuries’ for her. At 15 and without clean, well fitting uniform, DH phoned the council and asked if he could get the grant himself. They said no, so again he never saw anything. He owned one jumper and one pair of trousers. His uniform was owned by his three brothers before him and was green rather than blue, stained and far too tight/small. DH was free school meals and a good job too as his mum would make shit for tea, like crisp sandwiches.

But all the ‘support’ in the world wouldn’t have helped DH get out of poverty. Because his mother was selfish and neglectful and didn’t care. And many kids still live like this today, with irresponsible useless parents.
I think school meals are important and should be given to these children, but sometimes I just wish they’d take these kids away from these people who don’t deserve them and find lovely homes for them. Sadly that doesn’t happen and the truth is there’s not enough ‘lovely homes’ out there for them. I’d love to see some people get parenting classes though and I’d love to see FSM vouchers be specific to certain goods like fruit and veggies!
I know not everyone is like this, but working in a school, too many are.

There's no evidence of any better outcomes if children are removed though. At least with fsm the kids get fed, which gives them half a chance of being able to bring themselves out of this.

Vouchers aren't perfect that is true, it would be better to be able to provide meals in the holidays but this is something that can be done quickly and will help many/most while we work out how to help the rest.