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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the sisterhood is a myth in love and lust?

113 replies

itsblueisntit · 21/10/2020 15:41

Just thinking about Lily James and her 'dalliance' with Dominic West, married with children.

Of course it's up to him to treat his marriage with respect blah blah ... but what about her? Is there such a thing as sisterhood when you fall in love and/or lust? Or do women push that aside in pursuit of what they want?

AIBU to think women don't follow any sisterhood when it comes to this?

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 21/10/2020 20:36

You never hear about the 'brotherhood' now do you?

Another shocking example of holding women to entirely different standards to men.

Dominic West owed his wife fidelity. Lily James didn't owe her anything. I mean common courtesy is nice and all, but there is absolutely no comparison.

Didyousaynutella · 21/10/2020 20:39

I think it depends on your life experiences and moral code. I had a shitty cheating dad and saw my mother lose all her confidence being married to him. Therefore I would never, even when I was much younger, have got involved with a married man. I have been propositioned by married men a couple of times and said no because of this, even when I was very young. Not saying I am perfect, I cheated on a boyfriend once but for me the sanctity of marriage was always a no go.
I had a friend who came from a perfect loving family who continuously cheated with older married men. The wife was always a psycho etc. I could never understand it. But I suppose she had never seen the damage done from the other side. She did it to feel good about herself, mostly because of her to yo yoing weight issues. I cut her out of my life eventually as I hated what she did. She is married to a man her own age now ( won’t feel sad if he cheats on her with a younger woman).

ImEatingVeryHealthilyOhYes · 21/10/2020 20:59

I sort of hold two thoughts on this. One, it’s the responsibility of the person in the relationship not to cheat. The other thought is about not screwing over another woman (I.e. sisterlyness).

Elsewyre · 21/10/2020 22:26

@itsblueisntit

Just thinking about Lily James and her 'dalliance' with Dominic West, married with children.

Of course it's up to him to treat his marriage with respect blah blah ... but what about her? Is there such a thing as sisterhood when you fall in love and/or lust? Or do women push that aside in pursuit of what they want?

AIBU to think women don't follow any sisterhood when it comes to this?

Why would anyone base their life on favouring people the same as them?

Do you feel a fellowship with other white people and believe you should stick together?

Or just sex nor race?

Elsewyre · 21/10/2020 22:28

@TheKeatingFive

You never hear about the 'brotherhood' now do you?

Another shocking example of holding women to entirely different standards to men.

Dominic West owed his wife fidelity. Lily James didn't owe her anything. I mean common courtesy is nice and all, but there is absolutely no comparison.

The bro code?

Bros before hoes?

Etc "you're like me you should put me first" is pretty universal 😂

chipsandgin · 21/10/2020 22:35

I don’t think there’s a sisterhood or brotherhood - people are decent with high moral standards or morally bankrupt or usually something in between.

He shouldn’t have cheated but is clearly a creepy old sleaze, his creepy old sleaze act worked on her, which is sad but his relationship is not her responsibility. I imagine the scales have fallen from her eyes and she’ll be embarrassed to have been part of it all and regret it when she looks back (& probably cringe as let’s face it, those pictures are a cringefest, especially him on the scooter with his ill fitting jeans with the pockets crammed full or leering over her in the restaurant 🤮).

VinylDetective · 21/10/2020 22:38

@ViciousJackdaw

Cheating/adultery is a shitty thing. Being with someone who you KNOW is partnered/married is also a shitty thing.

I'm judging both parties. West is a cheating arse. Let's not pretend James didn't know what she was doing. Both as bad as each other.

Completely agree. I’m completely mystified by the tendency to absolve blame of the man or woman who knowingly fucks someone they know is attached. It’s like being single gives you a free pass to do whatever you want.
TooTrueToBeGood · 21/10/2020 22:42

Here we go again. Let's dogpile on the OW rather than the married man. It's misogynistic bullshit and it baffles me why misogyny is just as common amongst women as men. Men have affairs with married women just as much as women have affairs with married men but they sure as hell don't get an equal share of the ire and shaming.

Sisterhood my arse. Women are far too busy judging each other over everything and anything for that ever to be a reality.

Rainbowllama4 · 21/10/2020 22:43

I don’t think there is a sisterhood as such, I’ve seen many a post on here ripping a female celebrity apart, lots of nasty personal comments, the Mrs Hinch thread is a perfect example.
But saying that I do believe that women can come together to fight a cause and all differences between them forgotten.
Men definitely have a bro code and it’s not honourable.

Hailtomyteeth · 21/10/2020 22:50

You could take a definite line of 'not going there'. I did. I'm still 'not going there' and my heart (or maybe my fanny) aches for loves I've rejected. There were a lot. There are still a few and I'm still turning them down because they have wives. It's a bloody stupid position to be in but I made a commitment to it. No-one else should. It's a waste of joy.

MilkandWater · 21/10/2020 23:04

@ShebaShimmyShake

You know, I sometimes hear it said that women save their worst behaviour for other women and this is proof of what hateful bitches we are. There may be some truth to this (emphasis on the "may"...I think this is something of an oversimplification, and you might like to ask yourself what's likely to become of a woman who isn't nice to a man). But if it's true, it's sure as fuck just as true that men also save their worst behaviour for women.

But do we ask why everyone treats women badly? Do we hell. We instead castigate women as a class as WORSE than men. Even though it's pretty obvious that when it comes to exploitation and harm, women suffer far, far more from men at a class level than other women. Yes, I've had a shit bullying female boss too. And a shit bullying male one.

And when a man strays, we talk about how WOMEN have failed the "sisterhood". A stupid concept with no male equivalent that serves as another double standard against which women can be found wanting, and to make them responsible when a man acts like a shit. And when this gets a woman angry - and I won't deny it makes me very angry - I'm simply "projecting", from some unspecified "struck nerve". Because I couldn't possibly have any legitimate reason to be angered by this.

I'm a girls' girl, so yes, I object to being told what a cow I am because of what a MAN did. It's insulting to me and to my female friends who work towards support in body positivity, support in motherhood, community cohesion (which has been invaluable in the pandemic - the people doing shopping and errands for isolating people in my area have mostly been women), mental health, eating disorders and all the rest of it. It's actually even insulting to those women who really do dislike other women. Although I still think they're usually trying to escape the effects of misogyny by distancing themselves rather than actually really inherently hating female people.

And because I know someone's thinking it: no, disagreeing robustly with a woman about her internalised misogyny does not make me myself a woman hater. But it's handy that the concept exists to be used that way, isn't it?

Excellent post, @ShebaShimmyShake.

OP, maybe you could start by defining what you understand by ‘sisterhood’, because your posts suggest you see it as some kind of implicit undertaking not to shag your friends’ husbands.

Mydogmylife · 21/10/2020 23:12

@DillonPanthersTexas

It's not rocket science to know that if a married man or women comes on to you that you walk away

Is the right answer.

The married person starting an affair is a shit, the person knowingly entering into an affair with a married person is a shit as well.

Spot on
emilyfrost · 21/10/2020 23:16

@CutToChase

I think the whole "let's support HUMANS not just women" and "women are way bitchier to each other than men!" is just a load of glib cool girl BS.

Any emotionally healthy woman will know that having female relationships is a much closer thing than having friendships with men, no matter how close your friendship with a guy.

We should be supporting each other and empowering one another in a world in which we still face rape, domestic abuse and professional discrimination, not rejecting the notion of a sisterhood because it sounds woke. Reminds me of the women who claim getting a boob job are doing it for themselves. It's the patriarchy subtly at work

More bullshit.

Emotionally healthy humans can have close relationships with either sex.

Being a woman and having a close female friend does not make you closer to her than a male friend simply because you share the same genitals.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 21/10/2020 23:20

ShebaShimmyShake, I'm quite in awe of your ability to be so erudite and exacting in your posts to the goady and disingenuous OP. Brilliant posts. Star

seayork2020 · 21/10/2020 23:25

I have a sister, but what the heck is 'sisterhood' why are women expected to be nice just because we are women

sure all people should be nice just because people should be but no I do not get this 'sisterhood' thing, and if he is married he is the one with the problem not her.

I may be female but I own my actions whether good or bad I am sick to the back teeth of 'women are saints'

StoneofDestiny · 21/10/2020 23:31

So you’re basing your opinion of all women based on the actions of a few?

There is another thread on here where the opinion some women have of some men is based on the actions of a few.

Goosefoot · 21/10/2020 23:52

Some people are shits to other people, be it to people they are married to, or people they are not married to like the spouse of someone they are shagging.

I tend to think if people don't feel a moral obligation to treat other people well generally they aren't likely to feel any obligation to a "sisterhood".

itsblueisntit · 22/10/2020 00:16

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

ShebaShimmyShake, I'm quite in awe of your ability to be so erudite and exacting in your posts to the goady and disingenuous OP. Brilliant posts. Star
Oh please. Pass the bucket.
OP posts:
itsblueisntit · 22/10/2020 00:18

MilkandWater

Excellent post, @ShebaShimmyShake.

OP, maybe you could start by defining what you understand by ‘sisterhood’, because your posts suggest you see it as some kind of implicit undertaking not to shag your friends’ husbands.

Hmmm. I define the sisterhood as women clustering around Sheba and kissing upwards. Wink

OP posts:
goisey · 22/10/2020 00:32

All my friends love me and look out for me, and I do the same.
Anyone who doesn't do that isn't a friend.
Is that what you mean by sisterhood?

ViciousJackdaw · 22/10/2020 00:32

Being cheated on is really bloody awful. There's just no way I would want to be complicit in making someone else feel as bad as I did. It would be downright hypocritical too - I would hate to be cheated on again so I will not cheat myself or facilitate someone else's infidelity.

I suspect that if the DH/DP of those absolving James of all blame was to cheat themselves, with a woman who knew full well they were already taken, they'd soon be singing a different tune.

ShebaShimmyShake · 22/10/2020 07:34

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

ShebaShimmyShake, I'm quite in awe of your ability to be so erudite and exacting in your posts to the goady and disingenuous OP. Brilliant posts. Star
Thank you. And I admire you for being honest about your past on this issue and the way you can talk about it, and what you know now, without detracting from people.

Hmmm. I define the sisterhood as women clustering around Sheba and kissing upwards.

Yes, that's why it's such a useful concept. Whatever the situation, you can use it to try to delegitimise what a woman is saying. You don't even have to address her points. Yesterday it was a way of blaming women in general for men like West, today it's a way of trying to invalidate me and those women who agree with what I'm saying...and no actual refutation required!

chipsandgin · 22/10/2020 08:28

Being a woman and having a close female friend does not make you closer to her than a male friend simply because you share the same genitals

Pumperthepumper · 22/10/2020 09:15

Loving your work @ShebaShimmyShake - although how you have the patience is beyond me.

With all the evidence we have, how people can crawl over themselves to pretend it’s actually women that are the problem in society is just beyond me. Dominic West fucked over his wife and his children, trust gone from his family forever because he thought his dick was more important, but sure - Lily James is the real bad guy here. Give over.

itsblueisntit · 22/10/2020 10:02

Loving your work? Work? Really? Is this what passes as peer reviewed work nowadays?

Some comments have been made about men taking full ownership and responsibility for their infidelity and general poor behaviour and not passing the buck onto women to carry this. That's hardly Andrea Dworkin level insight.

The egos on here.

OP posts:
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