To think the sisterhood is a myth in love and lust?

[itsblueisntit]

Just thinking about Lily James and her 'dalliance' with Dominic West, married with children.

Of course it's up to him to treat his marriage with respect blah blah ... but what about her? Is there such a thing as sisterhood when you fall in love and/or lust? Or do women push that aside in pursuit of what they want?

AIBU to think women don't follow any sisterhood when it comes to this?

Sheba, I'm sorry if this has touched a nerve with you but you do seem to be projecting A LOT onto this thread. Really, it was a discussion point starter not a defender of all faithless men.

@itsblueisntit

Sheba, I'm sorry if this has touched a nerve with you but you do seem to be projecting A LOT onto this thread. Really, it was a discussion point starter not a defender of all faithless men.

I am angry. I'm angry partly because you're accusing me, as a woman, of being something I absolutely am not. I'm angry because that's a fair response to women being held responsible when men act like shits. I'm angry because you're perpetuating a sexist double standard that should have been erased years ago. I'm angry because you're attempting to ignore and invalidate all my points. And I'm angry because, in line with outdated misogynistic thinking (and women can internalise misogyny), you are trying to invalidate my anger and, by extension, everything I've said.

You won't admit it, but I'm pretty sure that my words have struck a chord with you. So while I certainly don't expect you to say on here that I've caused you to reconsider your thought process on this horrible double standard (much as that would behoove you and as much as it would actually make me respect you), I do live in hope that you will make a change and act on it, even if I don't get to see it.

I feel a strong sense of sisterhood, though I’m aware many women don’t.

There are loads of us who’d never get involved with a man who’s in a relationship. For me, this is partly due to my feeling of women not screwing each other over.

I don’t think she’s responsible for his decisions or the consequences they have for his marriage. He decided to break his promises and be unfaithful, and that’s on him.

But I have lost some respect for Lily James, whom I’ve always liked. It’s nothing to do with sisterhood, and more to do with the selfishness of behaving in a way which you know full well will cause pain to another person. I feel like basic human decency should preclude you from behaving that way - not some kind of unique moral responsibility owed by one woman to another.

It's not rocket science to know that if a married man or women comes on to you that you walk away.
I agree that if the married person wants to cheat then unfortunately they'll always find someone to cheat with.
However the if the OW/OM knows the person is married but still goes ahead with the affair then they should hold some of the blame.

Sheba,

What do you think the history textbooks say about solidarity? I'm genuinely interested.

I don’t see it as a moral responsibility we owe each other, but a concept you can opt in to feeling if you like, of extra respect because we know what it’s like to be female plus an awareness that the playing field still isn’t even

Cheating/adultery is a shitty thing. Being with someone who you KNOW is partnered/married is also a shitty thing.

I'm judging both parties. West is a cheating arse. Let's not pretend James didn't know what she was doing. Both as bad as each other.

I hate when a woman takes a cheating partner back but acts like the OW is the worst person on earth.

@AnneLovesGilbert

Is there supposed to be a brotherhood as well? What do men owe each other?

Silly - men cannot be held responsible for their actions. That's why everything is women's fault, always.

It's not rocket science to know that if a married man or women comes on to you that you walk away

Is the right answer.

The married person starting an affair is a shit, the person knowingly entering into an affair with a married person is a shit as well.

@Zilla1

Sheba,

What do you think the history textbooks say about solidarity? I'm genuinely interested.

I'm glad to satisfy your genuine interest. They say an awful lot about violence and wars perpetuated by men, which is why I always find it so....interesting when people say that women treat each other so much worse than men do, because they had a shit female boss.

You know, I sometimes hear it said that women save their worst behaviour for other women and this is proof of what hateful bitches we are. There may be some truth to this (emphasis on the "may"...I think this is something of an oversimplification, and you might like to ask yourself what's likely to become of a woman who isn't nice to a man). But if it's true, it's sure as fuck just as true that men also save their worst behaviour for women.

But do we ask why everyone treats women badly? Do we hell. We instead castigate women as a class as WORSE than men. Even though it's pretty obvious that when it comes to exploitation and harm, women suffer far, far more from men at a class level than other women. Yes, I've had a shit bullying female boss too. And a shit bullying male one.

And when a man strays, we talk about how WOMEN have failed the "sisterhood". A stupid concept with no male equivalent that serves as another double standard against which women can be found wanting, and to make them responsible when a man acts like a shit. And when this gets a woman angry - and I won't deny it makes me very angry - I'm simply "projecting", from some unspecified "struck nerve". Because I couldn't possibly have any legitimate reason to be angered by this.

I'm a girls' girl, so yes, I object to being told what a cow I am because of what a MAN did. It's insulting to me and to my female friends who work towards support in body positivity, support in motherhood, community cohesion (which has been invaluable in the pandemic - the people doing shopping and errands for isolating people in my area have mostly been women), mental health, eating disorders and all the rest of it. It's actually even insulting to those women who really do dislike other women. Although I still think they're usually trying to escape the effects of misogyny by distancing themselves rather than actually really inherently hating female people.

And because I know someone's thinking it: no, disagreeing robustly with a woman about her internalised misogyny does not make me myself a woman hater. But it's handy that the concept exists to be used that way, isn't it?

The Suffragettes,
Now they were a sisterhood,

The married party is a shit. The other party who knows the other is attached and still acts, is complicit in the 'shitness' and I wouldn't respect that person, male or female.

If your "interesting when people say that women treat each other so much worse than men do, because they had a shit female boss." was your perception of my post then I've little to add.

I've had fabulous female bosses & awful female bosses.
Same goes with male bosses some great & some horrendous.
It doesn't matter what sex you are, as unfortunately you are always going to get some people who are shit.

The sisterhood is a load of bollocks. We shouldn’t be supporting other women just because they’re women, we should be supporting other humans because they’re human.

@Ginger1982

The married party is a shit. The other party who knows the other is attached and still acts, is complicit in the 'shitness' and I wouldn't respect that person, male or female.

A key difference, though, is that if the man cheated, then while we wouldn't approve exactly, we also wouldn't ask why he did it. We may ask HOW he could have done that to his family (if we get that far after criticising women over the sisterhood), but we wouldn't be unable to fathom what benefit he got from it. Domestic stability and sex on the side, easy.

But if a woman cheats or sleeps with a married man, we are confounded. We can't understand how or WHY she would do it. The idea that what appeals to a man - enjoyable sex outside the marriage or with a married person - could appeal to a woman just as much and for the same reasons is actually a total puzzle. It amazes me how many people see a cheating woman or OW and quite genuinely have to ask what she could be getting out of it.

It's unworthy behaviour, but women are not the gatekeepers of sex, and certainly not of men's responsibilities. I appreciate that you're not saying that they are, it's just a further thought prompted by your post.

@Zilla1

If your "interesting when people say that women treat each other so much worse than men do, because they had a shit female boss." was your perception of my post then I've little to add.

I'm quite sure. However, the PP to whom I made the textbook comment made the claim that women are, and I quote: "a lot more bitchy and brutal towards one and other than men will ever be".

I don't believe that this is borne out by what the history books have to say about what men in patriarchal societies and male politicians, monarchs and world leaders (which would be most of them) have done to each other (and women too, if that matters) historically and currently. It's actually not even borne out by my experience of overwhelmingly male internet forums, where I received some lovely death and rape threats. Most of the guys were fine, I'm real life friends with a few of them now, but there was more doxxing, photoshopping of partners into pornographic images and threats of violence to each other than I've ever seen in a female-dominated online space.

(I have never seen any of that in a female-dominated space. Yeah, I'm amazed too.)

It's glib nonsense that disregards hundreds of years of male-led war, oppression and violence (YES I KNOW NAMALT) and yes, it usually is justified with "because I had a shit female boss" or equivalent.

I think the whole "let's support HUMANS not just women" and "women are way bitchier to each other than men!" is just a load of glib cool girl BS.

Any emotionally healthy woman will know that having female relationships is a much closer thing than having friendships with men, no matter how close your friendship with a guy.

We should be supporting each other and empowering one another in a world in which we still face rape, domestic abuse and professional discrimination, not rejecting the notion of a sisterhood because it sounds woke. Reminds me of the women who claim getting a boob job are doing it for themselves. It's the patriarchy subtly at work

When there’s no misogyny in the world (ho ho), then I’ll let go of my sisterly attitude to other women

(Ironically my own biological sister is of the ‘feminism has gone too far’ school of thought)

Dominic West is a married man.
Ryan Giggs was a married man who had an affair with his sister in law.
Woody Allen with his stepdaughter.

They are the people who should be judged first, not those who are single.

@ImEatingVeryHealthilyOhYes

(Ironically my own biological sister is of the ‘feminism has gone too far’ school of thought)

Has there ever been a time when people thought it hadn't?