AIBU to be shocked that this isn't common knowledge?

[DameFanny]

If you go to the pub, or a restaurant, you're not supposed to mix households, or be outside your bubble.

I thought this was all pretty clear - you distance from anyone not in your bubble. 2 metres, or 1 metre with screens, masks or something similar.

And I haven't bothered with the pub or whatever because what's the fun in waving at people from behind a screen. But that's not what people are doing is it? They're sharing tables with friends and getting Covid. Even though it's illegal, and the pub/restaurant can be closed down for it.

I thought the people going out were mostly just eating in a different set of walls with their household - or the posturing mask debaters who tell us it's just a sniffle - but I was honestly shocked on another thread that this isn't common knowledge. How many people are breaking the law?

www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/restaurants-offering-takeaway-or-delivery

@Hardbackwriter

No, you can't sit right next to them @tinty - the distancing still applies. It applies in a restaurant, in someone's home, in a shop - everywhere. Unless it's a member of your own household or support bubble.

Again, you're mixing up 'can't' and 'shouldn't'. You can, but you're not following the guidance which means you shouldn't.

And the restaurant can be closed for allowing it to happen

But getting back to normality will mean getting back to uncontrolled infection rates leading to hospitals filling up and mass deaths @Lazypuppy. Will that be 'nice to see'?

@Tinty the guidance is confusing, but it is clear that in the curcumstances you mention above you still have to follow social distancing rules. This basically means socially distancing when meeting people outside your household/support bubble.

Even in schools older children are meant to socially distance as much as possible and if children meet their friends outside of school they have to socially distance like the rest of us (schools are meant to be slightly safer anyway due to their covid secure measures).

I know it is a pain, but if we don't try to stick to the rules as they are the lockdown will get stricter and schools may have to close (to say nothing to the unnecessary morbidity and mortality). I am not in any way defending the government's messaging, it is confusing, but it does throughout say that social distancing guidance should be followed.

Guidance isn't the law. You should distance under guidance yes but you aren't committing a "crime" in tier 1.

The government has created so many exceptions to its keeping at least 1m away guidance (eg abandoning it completely between children and between adolescents in school bubbles, and between adults and children in nurseries, and in taxis that are of a normal size and shape, and in driving instructors’ cars etc, etc) that you can forgive people for getting confused and thinking it has also abandoned this guidance with respect to people mixing with other households in groups of up to six... Otherwise, why on earth would it not explicitly point out that most people’s homes are too small, and most pubs and restaurant tables too small, to enable people to meet up in groups of up to six, even though this is allowed if anyone has the space to do so? Or maybe a Government metre is shorter than a metric metre.

You are exactly right! I am especially baffled that people I know are constantly posting photos on LinkedIn in meetings with different individuals that change daily and posing for selfies side by side. I am guessing they are not aware if they are posting it on a professional platform!

@DameFanny the huge majority of people survive covid, yes people get sick and some people are dying. This is no different to any other illness out there, 80 people died of COVID today, around 400 die of cancer a day atm. Flu deaths seem to have vanished this year....odd no?

I'm not scared of getting COVID, neither are most people i know. Life has to go on.

Restrictions just temporarily limit covid, once they are lifted cases go up again, it can't be stopped.

@DameFanny you can live your life locked up if you want, but don't get annoyed at people who don't want to live like that and are choosing not to follow guidance

@DameFanny

And the bubbles aren't groups of 6 - the bubble is your household plus any people you form a support bubble with - for us it's my widowed DM.

But you absolutely can't change your bubble from day to day

And yes, meet in groups of 6 - but 2m apart, or 1m with other measures in place. So in a big back garden it's doable, in a small front room not so much, on a standard restaurant table very unlikely

Don't know where you are, but lowest tier, you're wrong.

Lazypuppy 1700 other people also had their death registered today and their average age was 81. One year less than the average age of the people who were registered as dying with Covid.

Check the guidance for yourself @Nanny0gg - little Pewsey needs to be 2m away if you don't live together

How is this so difficult for people.

You can meet in a group of up to six people (in Scotland, at least, they can't be from more than two households) but you still must follow social distancing rules with any of the group that aren't from your household.

The bubble thing confuses some people even more as I've seen mentions of people saying "oh me and hubby took the two kids to see my parents, as they are in our bubble" 🙄🙄

@Lazypuppy the people who want to live their lives AKA disease vectors.

Flu season hasn't started yet.

Must people do recover, but it's a very infectious disease with a relatively long presymptomatic but infectious incubation and .6% of everyone is a very large number

And then there's long covid.

Have you been watching shouty people on YouTube by any chance?

In that case, I do not understand how on earth its fine to book a table with 5 other people from different households. Yet its also against the rules/law to not be at least 1m from them. As how many places would be able to seat each person 1m from each ther on the same table?! It sounds like yet anther totally purposefully fudged 'rule' to me really.

^This. The government must realise that people are not clear on this aspect of the guidance- it's obvious to anybody who's walked past a café, pub or restaurant. But there have been no clarifications or reminders about it. I think it is indeed a 'fudged' rule - a bit like the sneaky 'where possible' line in the schools guidance, which basically absolves anyone from having to follow the guidance.

@Treesofwood

Maybe you could buy yourself a plastic pod thing and sit in that. Why would you want to go out for a meal in a mask or with a screen between you all?

Why wouldn't you? I have a regular group of 4 or 5 of us, who are carers and people with disabilities, who typically rely on each other a lot for support. Since we are only allowed to meet from two households at the moment, I damn well do make a point of meeting up with one at a time, to have a coffee. We sit a meter apart. Thats perfectly within the rules and provides essential support.

@DameFanny are you seeking support for your mental health?
You seem to be very anxious and obsessed with the virus.

I've got no problem with people who genuinely do do their own risk assessment - maybe expand their bubble by an extra person who needs the support, maybe meets up carefully like like @DumplingsAndStew. But I'm thoroughly sick of hearing people say 'I do my own risk assessment' when what they mean is 'I don't believe in covid, I don't think I'll get sick if I get it, I'm sure I won't pass it on to anyone else, and to demonstrate how fearless I am in teaching my 10yo to not wash his hands when we come in'

Actually I just checked and with regard to restaurants it's 1m with mitigation - and that mitigation can mean a range of different measures not just screens and masks.

@DameFanny
Have you been watching shouty people on YouTube by any chance?

Nope, i'm someone that is following the law, but not all the guidance, and i would rather live my life as normal as possible, i'm expecting to catch COVID at some point.

Again, a lot of illnesses have long repurcussions for the person, COVID ian't anything new in that sense.

Off to the pub tomorrow for a team lunch with 5 friends, and out for dinner with family in the evening! Enjoying life in Tier 1 while i can

[quote supersonicginandtonic]@DameFanny are you seeking support for your mental health?
You seem to be very anxious and obsessed with the virus. [/quote]
Oh dear. You're not very good at this reading between the lines are you? Try again

This. The government must realise that people are not clear on this aspect of the guidance- it's obvious to anybody who's walked past a café, pub or restaurant. But there have been no clarifications or reminders about it. I think it is indeed a 'fudged' rule - a bit like the sneaky 'where possible' line in the schools guidance, which basically absolves anyone from having to follow the guidance.

There are very few pubs that can survive entirely on the business from people from people attending in households. The government has no interest in mounting a 'you shouldn't go to the pub with your friend' campaign because it'll kill an already very shaky industry.

I think the other mitigation I saw was 'facing away from each other' @MajesticWhine - have you found another?

[quote DameFanny]@Lazypuppy the people who want to live their lives AKA disease vectors.

Flu season hasn't started yet.

Must people do recover, but it's a very infectious disease with a relatively long presymptomatic but infectious incubation and .6% of everyone is a very large number

And then there's long covid.

Have you been watching shouty people on YouTube by any chance?[/quote]
“Disease vectors”? Christ. Do you call schoolchildren “disease vectors” for wanting an educations?

Of course covid is a major fucking problem, and we need to have restrictions. But they have to be proportionate. People being allowed to go to restaurants with a small number of people to prevent the abject hardship and poverty which will be caused if the hospitality industry goes under (as a chunk of it already has) is a positive thing for society given that such a small number of infections seem to be from the hospitality sector.

I’m tier 2 so it’s not allowed now and they’re all sitting empty. I think people are very glib about the suffering these restrictions will cause. There has to be a balance between the various harms, and you don’t seem to appreciate that.

It makes sense that you should be distancing from anyone outside of your bubble.

But I can see why it's confusing! It's ok to go to a pub/ cafe/ restaurant.... but you need to distance from others.... yet that's impossible isn't it, how often do you see tables big enough for 6 chairs to be spaced out around it 1m apart?!

Agree @Hardbackwriter - the government needs to properly support hospitality AND entertainments so people aren't endangering each other while trying to make a living