AIBU to be shocked that this isn't common knowledge?

[DameFanny]

If you go to the pub, or a restaurant, you're not supposed to mix households, or be outside your bubble.

I thought this was all pretty clear - you distance from anyone not in your bubble. 2 metres, or 1 metre with screens, masks or something similar.

And I haven't bothered with the pub or whatever because what's the fun in waving at people from behind a screen. But that's not what people are doing is it? They're sharing tables with friends and getting Covid. Even though it's illegal, and the pub/restaurant can be closed down for it.

I thought the people going out were mostly just eating in a different set of walls with their household - or the posturing mask debaters who tell us it's just a sniffle - but I was honestly shocked on another thread that this isn't common knowledge. How many people are breaking the law?

www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/restaurants-offering-takeaway-or-delivery

@ArthurChristmas2 I am sorry. Not that what you say sounds ridiculous, but it is not the guidance at all. The guidance has always been that you must social distance from everyone who is not in your household or social bubble (and now there is also an exception for people in an established relationshio). There are other exceptions e.g. if you have to care for someone or in some instances for work, but in those cases there should be extra covid secure measures taken.

In terms of meeting up for socialising you must socially distance from everyone you who is not in your household or support bubble (or in the latest guidance who you are not in a relationship with). This is 100% clear. You can still meet 6 friends in tier 1 bascially anywhere (a pub, garden, house) but you have to follow social distancing guidance.

As people seem unclear this is what the social distancing guidance is:
"To reduce the risk of catching or spreading coronavirus, try to keep at least 2 metres away from people you do not live with. Social distancing is essential to stop the spread of the virus, as it is more likely to spread when people are close together. An infected person can pass on the virus even if they do not have any symptoms, through talking, breathing, coughing or sneezing.

When with people you do not live with, you should also avoid: physical contact; being close and face-to-face; and shouting or singing close to them. You should also avoid crowded areas with lots of people; and touching things that other people have touched.

Where you cannot stay 2 metres apart you should stay more than 1 metre apart, as well as taking extra steps to stay safe. For example:

-wear a face covering: on public transport and in many indoor spaces, you must wear a face covering by law, unless you are exempt.
-move outdoors, where it is safer and there is more space
-if indoors, make sure rooms are well ventilated by keeping windows and doors open.

You do not need to socially distance from anyone in your household, meaning the people you live with. You also do not need to socially distance from anyone in your legally-permitted support bubble if you are in one, or someone you’re in an established relationship with."

@satlie2019 sorry, what I should have said is I live in Wales. It has always been an exclusive group of 6. That the group of six should be fixed and should not alter from evening to evening. I say this knowing many people in Wales have not applied this at all.

Reading that ruling for England, I would still say that you cannot meet people outside your household in say a restaurant because you cannot keep 1m apart. And that has I believe always been advice in England?

I should add I’m English, my family are in England. I have seen them once since March and then only outside. And that is because that complies with what we believe as a family is required.

@ArthurChristmas2 That makes sense, yes sorry I am not familiar with the rules for Wales. I just didn't want to confuse matters further!

This is old guidance (for England I am talking about) from approx pre summer when the population wide infection rate was assumed to be high. Since then, over the summer you could hit the pub with up to 6 friends from different households

It is not old guidance! The guidelines about social distancing from anyone not in your household or bubble have never changed, you always had to distance and you still have to distance! You can be in a group of 6 from 6 different households but you still need to distance from each other.

In restaurants, pubs etc, surely it's the responsibility of the restaurants to ensure that the correct procedures are carried out. It is our responsibility to ensure that we meet our responsibilities, one of which is to wear a mask until we eat or drink and replace whilst not actually eating or drinking (so until you physically take a sip or begin eating it's mask on, not when you sit down).

@Hopoindown31

It is clearly confusing to some people, because the government is being obtuse at every opportunity. It is very clear that you should be social distancing with people outside your bubble at all times and this is been the case since the pandemic started. The fact that you are allowed to meeting in groups of six under certain conditions in certain tiers does not, and has never changed that.

Crowding round a table in a pub or restaurant with your mates is not allowed, yet it has been being routinely done for months. As soon as you have poorer weather (less outside eating and drinking), throw students coming from all over the country into that model (along with schools started and mixing children with no social distancing) we see an explosion of cases.

Of course hospitality venues have no real way of knowing or police who is in a bubble or not so there is little they can do beyond ensuring social distancing between groups of six.

This sums it up nicely

@satlie2019 sorry, what I should have said is I live in Wales. It has always been an exclusive group of 6. That the group of six should be fixed and should not alter from evening to evening. I say this knowing many people in Wales have not applied this at all
But that isn't even correct for Wales is it? Wales has (or had) extended households where 2 households of any size could join, like a bubble, and act as one household. That was then extended to 4 households. This had to be the same 2, then 4 households, so a fixed extended household /bubble. But I don't think there was ever a limit of 6 people (lots of my family are in Wales, I am in England so I checked the guidance to work out if I am allowed to visit them)

Have just cheeked and from mid September the rule changed so that only 6 people from an extended household could meet at any one time, but it doesn't need to be the same 6 each time. Prior to that all of the extended household could meet at once.

*checked not cheeked

Relevant bit of the guidelines for Wales:

Because a household can vary in size, there is no limit on the number of people who can be in an extended household. But only four households can form part of the extended household, and only six people (not including children under 11) from within the extended household can meet up at any one time

Social distancing has always been there. Nothing confusing about social distance. That has not changed. Yet lots are ignoring it - hence the second wave. And the rest of us tax payers have to pay for it ...

I have no idea of the rules anymore.

Honestly I don’t even know what tier I’m in at this point. Not that I’m off to the pub or anything any time soon anyway but still. I don’t blame people for being confused. The government can’t even follow their own guidance. The guidance changes constantly. Add in different rules for different places and it just makes a mess.

@DanceItOut

Honestly I don’t even know what tier I’m in at this point. Not that I’m off to the pub or anything any time soon anyway but still. I don’t blame people for being confused. The government can’t even follow their own guidance. The guidance changes constantly. Add in different rules for different places and it just makes a mess.

If you really don't know what tier you're in, you can put your postcode into the checker on the government website. Just Google "what tier am I in" and it should be there. (Can't link on phone)

Surely we all know what we must do to protect ourselves and our loved ones? Why do we need other people to tell us? We will soon be living in a totalitarian fascist country. George Orwell as it’s best.

Rule of 6, if government said jump off bridge, it's fine, would you do it, i hope the answer is no. If it doesn't sound right dont do it. Use your common sense.

just talking about this ! a norfolk coastal pub who were
not taking the correct precautions to protect their customers
where just fined 10,000 pounds,
fine away good thing behave responsibly or loose out

The world's gone mad. Economy screwed. Got told by a consultant yesterday that we no longer have an effective health service and I have no chance of getting an op I need in order to breathe properly. For the vast majority of us, Covid is the least of your worries. All this bickering about how many feet we should be from anyone else and in what situation a mask does or doesn't work. I'm doing what I'm asked. But I'll be supporting every business I can, because without them and an economy the future is bleak for many years.

@KittyMcV I am sorry about your operation. However, social distancing (and mask wearing) is what we need to do to stop the NHS being overwhelmed and to help businesses stay open.

The thing is, it's not all or nothing is it. If nothing was done to mitigate covid, the economy and people's health would suffer anyway because of too many people being ill and off work, clogging up the health service, so people won't get seen for things that are life saving that are relatively routine. More people with long term health problems unable to work and needing more care.

Covid is not going away. Hospital departments in our Trust have been closed to cancer patients just in case then the buildings weren't needed. People are fixating on things like masks and been encouraged by government to be divided. When things go pear shaped people will blame each other and not the government. Win win. Opposing scientific opinion is being silenced. This sort of bickering is futile. The government will keep changing the goal posts and blame us for deaths. The only real thing that works is lockdown, and that works as circuit breaker but not permanent. Look up Hanoi study on masks. Btw I do it all. The consultant I saw was practically in tears. He said there would be a league of magnitude more deaths in account of the measures. I'm not arguing any more. I do the crazy things I'm asked. End of.

[quote DameFanny]@satnighttakeaway I'm talking about people eating at the same table as other households - friends or whoever. I know the tables are further apart, but that doesn't count for anything if you're mixing on the table itself[/quote]
exactly this!why arent people getting this.

There are too many people not following the rules. It only takes a few to ruin the efforts of everyone else. So I think restrictions can ameliorate but not eradicate the virus and serial lockdowns will bleed the economy dry without having a long term effect. The regional approach makes sense but if regions fail to tackle their own problem there have to be some consequences to make people change their behaviour. It’s important that each person is encouraged to take individual responsibility for protecting themselves and others. That means taking the trouble to read the advice for their area and keep themselves updated. It’s a cop out to keep blaming others. If someone is sure they can check out the website or ask. Local Councils need to communicate and reinforce local restrictions.

Everyone seems to have forgotten the 2m/1m+ rule. Politicians have been bumping elbows which is clearly not in line with this guidance.

@chomalungma

As far as I'm aware the 2m/1m has always been guidance and not law

I remember BBC Breakfast going to restaurants and pubs and looking at how they were implementing the 2m rule for people.

Yes but in order to implement the guidance which is different from the law. I have not seen any regulations which make it the law that you have to keep 1m or 2m distance though appreciate most iterations of the guidance has included this.

@RichardMarxisinnocent

Have just cheeked and from mid September the rule changed so that only 6 people from an extended household could meet at any one time, but it doesn't need to be the same 6 each time. Prior to that all of the extended household could meet at once.

yes.but if that 6 is not in a household you have to be socially distance inside or out, pub or home etc.that 2m apart or 1mplus masks from anyone not in your household in any situation whether as a 6 or not.