The MN manual of living together

[Sparklfairy]

NB: I'm single and there's no man on the horizon looking to move in. But I have seen so many scenarios on MN where the man has moved in and taken the piss, or the other extreme, they have moved in and their choice is to leave is to become homeless.

As a layperson (that clearly no one wants to live with anyway!) What is the holy grail?

A) they move into your place, turn into a dick, don't pay anything, it's almost guaranteed they will become a cocklodger. I suppose you can kick them out. They have no comeback about bills etc. MN will tell you off for finding a cocklodger

B) you move into his place. You can leave whenever you like and bills are his but he also has the power and you're walking into a homeless abyss. Worst case you could come home and he's locked you out!

C) 50/50 sounds sensible until he realises that you're liable for the bills he doesn't pay, which can get messy. You're sat they're paying his half while he eats your food and gets designer watches

Is the only answer simply to never live with a man?

Before some snide MNer comes on. My examples are actual quotes from actual threads, so no, I'm not "jealous"

Seriously though, how do you move in and protect yourself? Yes ok most of your partners are thankfully not dicks, but we all know it can go pear shaped in a second.

Sparklfairy

"Is the only answer simply to never live with a man?"

Honestly? yes.

Cohabitation is way way over-rated and IMHO its only really the best option if you share children.

Otherwise it benefits men far more than women. They end up with sex on tap and a domestic servant who does way more than their share of labour.

For the woman its rarely worth it sex always goes off the boil eventually and you are left with resentment and a sense that you're having the piss taken. Cohabiting is the fastest passion killer.

I'm sure someone will be along to say "my Henry pulls his weight at home" and yes there are some that do. But precious few do.

I would never live with a man again.

You agree a split of the bills before you move in together and you both stick to it because you love and respect each other and are both decent people?

Me and DP have our own places

Probably not so easy these days but when DH and I met we both owned our own homes so we could both 'observe' (sounds very formal ) how we each lived our lives ie; taking financial responsibility, standards of housekeeping etc. I think to move in with someone who has only lived at home with their parents is a recipe for disaster.

In over 30 years of marriage the only things we don't argue over are money and cleaning .

However I also agree that co-habiting is seriously over rated and if I could make a different choice I would remain single.

I think the true answer is make sure you know the person well before you move in together and make sure you have had an honest discussion about expectations before you do (including bills, housework standards/how to share, cooking etc). If you don't feel comfortable having this discussion I'd say it's not the right time and/or person.

Then protect yourself by making sure you have an exit plan in case things go wrong (could be a relative you can stay with for a while, or some savings that could pay for accommodation/deposit on your own place etc).

You meet a person. You get to know that person. You place yourself in as a reasonable position as you can with jobs and finances and then rent a place you can afford together, both names on the paperwork. It’s not rocket science.

Communication is key. Discuss expectations and finances before moving in. Don’t let go of your previous home until you’re happy things are working out.

Don’t “accidentally” get pregnant in the hope that it will make him step up/commit.

Protect your assets, and expect that he does the same.

Have a decent job and be able to support yourself for if it goes wrong - that way you’re staying because you want to, not because you have to.

And as unpopular as it is, “don’t be a wife to a boyfriend”.

It’s finding someone who isn’t too annoying that you are willing to compromise for. I was mostly living on my own ( though did have relationships) till my V late 30s. LTR where we’d each have our own homes.

Now been married and living together for several years. Still miss my own space sometimes but on balance it’s a reasonable balance between annoyance and being good.

It helps that we are both solvent!

I like the Helena Bonham Carter and Tim Burton way. Homes next door to each other. Visit when the mood takes you.

I mean, I know they split up, but hey, it seemed like such a good idea!

My husband is one that does do his absolute fair share of everything. However, I know this is not the norm and were he not around anymore I wouldn't ever want to live with anyone else I don't think. Too set in my ways.

Or you could be like the many, many people who actually live harmoniously. Life on Mumsnet land very rarely seems to echo real life for the majority.

People are rarely identically matched when they move in together, in terms of finances- one person earns more, has a property already or is carrying debts or just wants to spend their money differently.

Most people do negotiate this successfully as successfully negotiating money is part of a good relationship- it doesn't have to be 'equal', it just has to be respectful and allow everyone to take their turn in carrying the economic burden and in helping them get their career goals. My husband came into our relationship with a flat, he knew by marrying me that would have to be shared if we divorced, but we didn't and plenty of times I took up the slack by working f/t when he lost his job, or getting things on my own credit when his was worse.

If you love someone, and they are respectful of you, then you will find ways to make these things work, and to measure your different contributions (not everyone needs to be the provider all at the same time, or take time off for maternity/paternity). If they are not very nice, and a lot of men aren't very nice and are happy not to respect their partners, or are just ingrained to think they are better/their job should come first/devalue their wives' jobs or activities in the home, then that will show in money issues.

So- money issues are often a litmus test for everything else. In real life I don't know anyone who has split up over money issues alone, even if they have caused a lot of stress. Usually it's other issues driving any split.

@DonLewis when the news broke someone commented 'Who gets custody of Johnny Depp?' I have to admit that despite being sad for Helena and Tim (I am a fan of both of them) I laughed a little too hard at that one.

I love living with my DH. He's the only person I could live with. We moved in together (a joint tenancy) a year after we met and have lived together 10 years now. We own our flat together though the deposit was his.

Yanbu. Not living with a man before marriage/engagement gets a bad rap on here for being outdated, prudish, impractical, sign of non-committal etc (i remember a thread about a poster not being considered in a comitted relationship in re. to wedding invite due to not living together, and it seemed to be the general consensus) But then so does co-habitating without any formal commitment and the ultimate no no seems to be co-habitating with children but not married. Living with a man once married is almost acceptable with either kids/no kids but after X amount of time prepare to ltb 😂

You discuss things in advance, including what happens if you split up, agree a fair split of rent / bills and go from there.

Bonus points if you’re financially independent before you start living with said man and have some savings in case you need to move out.

Honestly, I think the only way you can live with another person is if you’ve always done it. If you start living with someone early in your adult life then your expectations are lower. If you spend any significant part of your adult life living alone forget it, because actually living with another adult, unless you can find the rare unicorn who you click with in every way, is a drag.

I lived with someone from when I was very young but have lived on my own, well with DC, for the last 7 years. Even having my ex to stay for a few weeks in lockdown was unmanageable. I think it’s very unlikely I’ll live with anyone ever again. I’d rather keep my own place and see a partner when it suits.Other people’s mess, farts, toe nail clippings and annoying habits are something I can live without.

It all depends on whether you choose the 'right' man, OP! As some have said, it does seem to benefit the man more than the woman in terms of sex and domestic duties. My DH literally does nothing to help in the house; for example, if I ask him to clean his bathroom, he puts it off and puts it off until we have a row about it. I refuse to clean up his mess! He will take the bins out if I ask, but can never remember the day or which bin is due to be put out.

Choose very carefully and, yes, if possible observe before committing to anything!

Exactly what @MaskingForIt said.
Sadly, when things go wrong, it's because one of those points have failed.

It's in our hands to make responsible choices...and be patient.

Dh and I spent a few years living and working together in our verg bery early days. Accommodation came with the job so no bills/cooking etc just light housework.

We then rented a room together when our jobs changed. Only after 2years dating and 3years living as above did we commit to buying together and by then we knew how the other worked and had had many chats about finances etc.

We then waited another 3years before adding a dc into it.

We were lucky that this all started quite young so no pressure due to age/fertility etc.

I also like that, if needed, we could each individually keep the home and bills paid without the other one.

Bonus points if you’re financially independent before you start living with said man and have some savings in case you need to move out
Well the alternative is being financially dependent on the man, so the equivalent of the cocklodger that gets much bashing here.

My best friend had a trick to look at being with someone.
She booked a surprise self catering holiday.
2 weeks and she went into lazy mode on the holiday.
She didn't shop and asked him to go grocery shopping, he said her job, went as she forced him as no food, waited at the till to see how he intend to pay.
Saw how he chucked clothing, or if he put in the washing.
Found out if he ever cleaned up.
The bathroom one was funny, she hated his mess.

The answer imo is to be very picky about who you get involved with in the first place, and then ruthless about dumping anyone who doesn't live up to your expectations of an equal partner. And to be prepared to stay single forever rather than tolerate a relationship that's not beneficial to you. But all that goes for partners regardless of whether you're cohabiting imo.

@dontdisturbmenow

Bonus points if you’re financially independent before you start living with said man and have some savings in case you need to move out Well the alternative is being financially dependent on the man, so the equivalent of the cocklodger that gets much bashing here.

That was sort of my point