Sweets in graveyard...?

[LadyHalesBroach]

I’ll set the scene...

Currently sat at a table having coffee in Kew Gardens enjoying five mins peace.

Table next to me are a bunch can of SWLondon Mums.

“Isn’t it sad that Tarquin and Hyacinth-Petunia (I think those were the names...) can’t go trick or treating this year, poor darlings.”

“I’m taking them to the graveyard and hiding sweets behind all gravestones instead.”

I’m sat here like what?! Maybe it’s because I recently lost my mum, but if someone came and stuck haribo on her gravestone, I would a)kick off either child or parent and b) eat her sweets.

Or am I being over precious?

Interesting. I have never heard of anybody using a graveyard as a halloween prop, but I did grow up reading Anne of Green Gables (not sure how many British mums' did), and she and her friends, as teens, often picnicked in graveyards (generally old ones). Common theme in her books.

It's poor taste. But tbh, I don't think it's as bad if the graveyard is extremely old (as in, pre 1850) compared to newer graveyards that are still used.

.

Oh and we also take food and drink to have by her grave.

@howtobe

I’m from Glasgow and there was a case here a few years ago about a child who was killed by a falling gravestone.

It’s not a safe place for a child to play

I’m from Glasgow and this was exactly my first thought too.

A graveyard is not a bloody playground.

Stupid and disrespectful.

@Antonov

Haribo? In a graveyard?

"Call the police...!"

Wait.

"We are the police" (in a squeaky voice)

Made my day, thanks.

Really sorry for your loss @WaterOffADucksCrack , what you do sounds lovely and respectful.

But that does sound a bit different to a group of 6 year olds doing a Covid secure trick or treating session.

If I saw you next to my mums grave doing what you described, I would absolutely have no problem and would offer you a cup of tea and a chat, if you wanted it. And your kids would be welcome to all the noise and fun they wanted to have, because it’s a totally different context.

Aridane Cross posted! We do this at various times throughout the year. I like to think of her grave celebrating her and my other babies and encourage my children to do the same. I am very matter of fact about death with them and it doesn't phase them. My 5yo pre covid would come to my care home and see all the people there and if one passed away he would ask where they were and I'd be honest. He would just say "they will be in heaven now with their family won't they". I say yes (I don't believe in heaven but I believe there is something).

Perhaps I’m alone in finding nothing wrong with it.

In the past I have taught in a school where the playground was tiny so the next door church allowed the children to play in the grave yard.

Perhaps this is because no one I have lost has a grave.

LadyHalesBroach We go at Halloween with the children dressed up for trick or treating and they run around. I wouldn't have an issue with seeing children running around having Halloween fun. I'd like to think my other children would be happy to see it. All my late relatives would too and so would I if I was dead.

I’ve just remembered the nearest town to where I grew up had a large church and church yard in the centre.
All the grave stones had been removed to the edge and people would sit on the grass like a park. In hot summers if you went up the church tower you could see the outlines of the graves in the grass.

I don’t remember anyone complaining about respect.

Totally inappropriate, most graveyards, have a section devoted to children, how upsetting for a family visiting their child’s grave to find sweets from a stranger for a Hallowe’en treasure hunt. No one could be that insensitive & heartless surely.

@LadyHalesBroach

I'm sorry for your loss. My DH is buried in local graveyard (he was father to young DC) when he died. He'd be chuckling away in his grave at this creativity in enjoying Halloween. To me, it's harmless fun and I don't think the dead would resent kids having fun, they after all know life is for living!

But I can see why you're upset.

Loads of public parks in London, including those with extensive children's play areas are actually graveyards.

Hopefully they'll fall in an open grave.

Culturally inappropriate in a churchyard (or other place with Christian burials) because of the link with ghosts which are not in Christian doctrine.

That depends on which Christian doctrine. There are many very devout Christian communities around the world that includes the belief of ghosts (and textually there is support, such as the witch of Endor rising the spirit of the prophet Samuel though some denominations have viewed that as a demonic illusion rather than his true spirit).

I mean, while rooted in Aztec polytheism, Día de Muertos has for centuries largely been a Christian festival in line with Church's calendar of All Saints and All Souls Day, and even though many of us celebrate it with different beliefs (much as many do with Christmas). In a couple of weeks, thousands of graveyards will be filled with laughter, community, and yes - sweets. I don't think it would be appropriate to say that their interpretation of the holidays or the texts is less Christian than anyone else's as all of them are infused with the communities that were coverted and did the converting.

Would they do this on their own grandma's grave, I wonder?

I would, but that graveyard has long had a policy of only flat gravestones except for secure group memorial monuments (so far less risk), and in a community that has a very open, community view of death. In fact, I can order items online to be left at their graves and see others who have done the same and pictures from their graves allows the old visiting traditions and ties to remain even though I'm thousands of miles away.

Over the last few years, we have had “light parties” in our churchyard. They have been far more exciting than ‘trick or treat’.

Not this year, however. I think we are doing something on Facebook Live.

Id think it was a bit tasteless but I expect that it will happen more.

Oh, and having spent a few years living in SW London, I totally get what you mean.

i wouldn’t mind someone playing around my mother or brother’s graves, nor would I mind them playing around mine (assuming I’d be a ghost with an opinion!) but I wouldn’t let my child do this because a) someone else might mind him playing among their family’s graves, but mostly because b) gravestones are dangerous - there have been several children crushed under unstable ones.

Ah, thanks @GroundAlmonds. I get it now!

I would not mind kids playing and laughing near my grave when I'm gone and in the ground. Actually I hope they do! As long as it's safe. I'd love kids to be happy, having fun, laughing in the fresh air, enjoying space. Especially if i'm a long time dead and noone is tending the grave or visiting.

@Saz12

I don’t u derstand your SW mum reference (I’m not London based). But...thats really crass and ignorant behaviour. Enjoying graveyards is one thing (history, calm etc) but to use gravestones as a “spooky Halloween toy” isn’t on.

Saz I'm a Londoner and it's shorthand for upper-middle class, daily mail reading au pair employing, suv driving mummies.

We have an annual Easter egg hunt in our small local cemetery. The "Friends of XXX Cemetery" organise it (the cemetery is now closed to new burials though).

Hopefully they'll fall in an open grave. What a nasty, psychotic thing to say about children/anyone.

I always find the british attitude to cemeteries mystifying. Most of the rest of the world view them very very differently. A place to celebrate peoples lives and keep their memory alive, like mexico having picnics, even a lot of gypsies and travellers hold parties in cemetaries to celebrate the person. I find the whole british: you must be sad you must be silent dont show any positive emotion at all, a very weird and disturbing tradition.

I once sat next to two mums in a restaurant discussing their kids. This was west London and their names were: Peregrine, Tiger Lily and Tarquin. The waiter had his flies undone and bright yellow underpants sticking out.

That was quite a meal.