To think that this is unacceptable in this day and age

[nighttrains]

• An estimated 14.3 million people are in poverty in the UK
• 8.3 million are working-age adults, 4.6 million are children, and 1.3 million are of pension age
• Around 22% of people are in poverty, and 34% of children are
• Just under half (49%) of those in poverty are in “persistent povertyy_” (people who would also have fallen below the poverty line in at least two of the last three years). This is as of 2016/17

This is from fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/

It's appalling for a so called civilised country

We have free education, free healthcare and access to to funds to feed us. So it seems that no one should be in poverty.
Yet, we have untold numbers accessing food banks and are going without.

I , personally, blame the government for not providing social housing.
We have so many families living in private accommodation that UC doesn't cover the rent for.
Councils need to build council houses.
I'm so fed up of seeing endless house building that advertises 3/4/5 bedroom luxury dwellings.
We need housing for low earners , families on benefits, elderly with no savings.

Honestly some of these posts are vile, circumstances change.
I'm sure most people didn't know a pandemic was going to happen this year and they would loose there jobs! And end up waiting for weeks for UC and having to rely on food banks.
Maybe people shouldn't have children if there in poorly paid jobs!
You know the people who clean hospitals, serve you at the supermarkets,restaurants, look after your children at nursery, child minder, look after your elderly parents.
Only the rich deserve to have children, seriously some people really need to think before they write things.

who is dont disturb me know and why is he on Mumsnet ?

@TenThousandSteps

And yet so many of these poor families have sky tv, they smoke and drink. They prioritise these over feeding their children.

Straight out of the Daily Fail @JenniferSantoro. Please give us the facts to back this up.

I help a lot of people with their benefit entitlement. They send me benefit letters/ papers so I can see where the problem lies or overpayment has arisen. I open the envelopes and the papers reek of cigarette smoke, some are even stained that yellowy colour that paper goes when in a heavily smoke ridden room ! I assist people with a cancer diagnosis and a lot of them have long term problems due to heavy smoking and alcohol abuse - copd, lung and esophageal and head and neck cancers. I am by no means saying that all benefit claimants are heavy drinkers and smokers but I do think the ones in the greatest poverty are because they have addictions which they cannot give up and spend a large proportion of their benefit money on feeding the addiction. There are no easy answers to helping them though, mental health services are so limited and help is hard to get. Smoking and drinking is a coping mechanism that helps them live with the shitty life they are faced with. It's a viscious circle. I can't comment on whether people prioritise fags and drink over feeding their kids though. Most of my clients are single men, long term unemployed with health problems relating to addiction.

Meh. People voted for this and they keep on voting for it. So it's hard to care.

You might as well say that war is unacceptable. It’s not something that can be solved by little Britain. Poverty is universal. It will take many more generations to solve it.

I hear you OP. I have a highly skilled friend living in his van at the moment. I cant even offer a place for him to stay because our roof collapsed on one side so I literally have a kitchen, living room and 1 bedroom (dh and i sleep in the living room) dc in the bedroom. Scummy landlord taken 8 months to put scaffolding up to fix it.
My friend is a plumber by trade but had a mental health crisis, lost his home, local GP surgery, too ill to understand universal credit.. it's a mess.

so you are not being unreasonable, it is unacceptable

And when people are poor , they make poor choices, read Michael Marmott" The health gap" for this,.

so probably would I and maybe you...?

£248 a week for a couple with no children
£144 a week for a single person with no children
£401 a week for a couple with two children aged between 5 and 14
£297 a week for single parent with two children aged between 5 and 14

I'm probably being dim here, but surely a couple earning £1k per month (so just over the Rowntree threshold for poverty) are still, well, going to be in poverty?

How can you pay rent, bills, feed two people and pay eg bus fares to work anywhere in the UK for £1k?

And how can a single person stay afloat and not be considered in poverty if they earn £145 a week?

£100 on a room in a house share, and £45 for EVERYTHING else?

No matter where you are in the UK, that must meet the definition of poverty. You cannot sustain life (not even a modest life as somebody put it) paying for essentials with this kind of minute money. It doesn't work, it will inevitably lead to debt.

@Whybot

And when people are poor , they make poor choices, read Michael Marmott" The health gap" for this,. so probably would I and maybe you...?

Perfect and succinctly put.

I would like to live in a country where everyone can afford to buy the same cup of coffee and pastry in the morning

Yes, but being entirely honest and I'll probably get flamed for this however I couldn't really care less...I would like to live in a country where people who work hard are actually rewarded for doing so. Why would some people go out and work their areas off, miss precious time with their children and families etc, when harry next door doesn't bother his arse going out to work and "can afford the same coffee and pastry" as his hardworking neighbour.

I grew up in a family and extended family of workshy people who knew every trick in the book to basically live a life off benefits. While I think that there should always be a safety net for the genuinely disabled, elderly and those temporarily down on their luck, we need to tighten up on who qualified for benefits. Excluding those who genuinely can't work of course, why should everyone be able to enjoy the same fruits of society if only some of them actually contribute towards society?

I could afford a coffee and pastry every morning but I would rather use the money for something else.

Make a hot drink for free in office and bring my own sandwiches

We live in a country with free education, free healthcare and a benefit system.

We are responsible for our own choices in life. Some will make choices they can’t afford but personal responsibility has to come into the equation.

@AbsentmindedWoman

£248 a week for a couple with no children £144 a week for a single person with no children £401 a week for a couple with two children aged between 5 and 14 £297 a week for single parent with two children aged between 5 and 14

I'm probably being dim here, but surely a couple earning £1k per month (so just over the Rowntree threshold for poverty) are still, well, going to be in poverty?

How can you pay rent, bills, feed two people and pay eg bus fares to work anywhere in the UK for £1k?

And how can a single person stay afloat and not be considered in poverty if they earn £145 a week?

£100 on a room in a house share, and £45 for EVERYTHING else?

No matter where you are in the UK, that must meet the definition of poverty. You cannot sustain life (not even a modest life as somebody put it) paying for essentials with this kind of minute money. It doesn't work, it will inevitably lead to debt.

For this math a month is *4.3.

Here's the math, step by step - all non-london prices
A. £1066 --- 248 a week for a couple with no children
Rent: studio or 1bed: £500
Leaves £566 per month or £132 pw

B. £619 --- 144 a week for a single person with no children
Rent: 300
Leaves £319 or £74
OR
room for £100, leaves: 519 pm or 120pw

C. £1724 --- 401 a week for a couple with two children aged between 5 and 14
Rent: 2 bed, yes children have 1 room: £1000
Leaves: £724 pm or £168 pw

D. £1277 ---- 297 a week for single parent with two children aged between 5 and 14
Rent: 1 bed: 500
Leaves: £777 pm or £180pw

I know that if you factor in transportation and food then most of the left over after rent is gone. But this is not poverty.

I love in a relatively cheap part of the country and £1000 would be difficult to live on.

Rent - £375, based on a one bed private flat
Council tax - £131, based on band A
Gas/electricity - £50, although would probably be more if its key meters
Water - £30 per month, based on non-metered charges
Transport - £90 for a four week bus pass, x2 if both adults need one

There's £766 before a single crumb of food has even been bought. They would have around £58 left each week to pay for food, clothing, healthcare (e.g., prescriptions, glasses, dentists, OTC medicines), phone, TV license, internet, any debt repayments, any emergencies or unexpected bills.

London doesn’t have the poverty in quite the same way as outside of the capital

Whenever I leave the capital it’s a bloody eye opener

But why should we be suprised ? Or shocked ? Surely the fact that humans are on the whole making things worse not better is no suprise

If poverty is defined as a comparative to the mean then there will always be poverty.
I have never thought of it like that before. Very helpful to my understanding of things.
But it isn't defined as a comparative to the mean.. One definition is anyone living on less than 60% of the median.

There is no mathematical reason why any of the 50% of the population earning less than the median should be earning so little that they're on less than 60% of the median.

@Gancanny

I love in a relatively cheap part of the country and £1000 would be difficult to live on.

Rent - £375, based on a one bed private flat
Council tax - £131, based on band A
Gas/electricity - £50, although would probably be more if its key meters
Water - £30 per month, based on non-metered charges
Transport - £90 for a four week bus pass, x2 if both adults need one

There's £766 before a single crumb of food has even been bought. They would have around £58 left each week to pay for food, clothing, healthcare (e.g., prescriptions, glasses, dentists, OTC medicines), phone, TV license, internet, any debt repayments, any emergencies or unexpected bills.

You forgotOn top of the standard allowance, you get additional allowances:

child benefits
childcare costs
housing costs benefits
Free dentist/prescriptions
Free school meals

If you have children. The example used was a couple with no children who may not qualify for help with housing, free prescriptions, etc if they don't meet the eligibility criteria for in-work benefits.

As discussed, poverty by what standard?
I've lived and worked in India and 2 African countries where the poverty is heart breaking.
I'm pleased I live in a country with an NHS and free education for boys AND girls to 18... a welfare system that provides housing, and food when needed, free school meals, vitamins and vaccinations.
I'm a socialist by design and agree with tax. But I think occasionally we should look at some of the positive in this country, I've encountered so much worse*
*like a child with a brain tumour being sent home to die in a village in rural India as the parents didn't have the £300 to pay to admit her

And yet people still vote Tory

Poverty isn’t just financial.
There is poverty of education.
Poverty of opportunity and choice.
Healthcare poverty - lack of understanding of the health and welfare system
Poverty of knowledge - of things like budgeting, healthy eating, activities to promote wellbeing
Poverty of access - poor/expensive public transport so people are unable to access employment, healthcare, fresh food shops

This country makes me weep sometimes.

B. £619 --- 144 a week for a single person with no children
Rent: 300
Leaves £319 or £74
OR
room for £100, leaves: 519 pm or 120pw

I know that if you factor in transportation and food then most of the left over after rent is gone. But this is not poverty.

Honestly @TheSunIsStillShining think I am missing the point you are making here?

How can it not be poverty if you can't afford to pay for bills, groceries and transport to work? None of those are optional costs, they are all essential running costs of a very basic life?

What do you count as poverty?

I also am confused by your maths above. I take the point that you are multiplying by 4.3 so thank you for pointing that out because I was just multiplying by 4 which obviously doesn't work. But then where you have showed how that breaks down for a single person trying to rent a room, it doesn't make sense to me.

If you have £619 per month and pay rent of £100 per week (which I think you're saying equates to a rent of £519 pcm?) then you have a hundred pounds left to feed yourself, and pay all necessary bills? Which is obviously not possible?

I know I'm repeating myself but just can't see how, no matter what the definition, this is not poverty?

But to be fair I'm remarkably shit at maths so maybe I'm being particularly dense here