To think that this is unacceptable in this day and age

[nighttrains]

• An estimated 14.3 million people are in poverty in the UK
• 8.3 million are working-age adults, 4.6 million are children, and 1.3 million are of pension age
• Around 22% of people are in poverty, and 34% of children are
• Just under half (49%) of those in poverty are in “persistent povertyy_” (people who would also have fallen below the poverty line in at least two of the last three years). This is as of 2016/17

This is from fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/

It's appalling for a so called civilised country

The definition of poverty in the UK at the moment is a household that is below 60% of the average/median income. The government was going to change the definition this year but I'm guessing that Covid got in the way.

Using that definition we do have the levels of poverty that the OP posted. One of the shocking things about the current levels of poverty in this country is how many of those living in poverty are working. I guess we have the gig economy to thank for that.

The other issue we have is the ever-increasing economic inequality, the gap between rich and poor. The top 10% of the wealthy in this country own 45% of the wealth. That is pretty shocking.

Poverty is something that is defined differently at different times and yes, poverty in the 21st century isn't the same as it was in the 19th century, but I would have thought that people would no longer be comparing our poverty with that and other countries where poverty is worse than here, especially in terms of benefits and assistance from the state.

We are - currently - among the richest countries in the world and yet around 3 million of our children live in poverty and there is increasing poverty among pension age people. That should shock people and rather than making comparisons and being "oh well the US is worse than us with their economic equality" or "yeah, but they have a roof over their heads" etc. Our country can afford to not have this much poverty among us. We can afford to look after people and make sure they don't fall through gaps. Nobody who works full time should have to go to food banks. No one. It's only going to get worse next year when we leave the EU and have to sort out all manner of new trade deals. I do the cowardly thing and don't think about it too much because it makes me want to weep.

Nobody who works full time should have to go to food banks. No, and the government shouldn't be propping up businesses by providing tax credits either. It is down to employers to pay a living wage, not to expect the taxpayer to pick up the costs. Businesses pay as little as possible because they know the government will prop up those on low incomes. That burden should be moved from the taxpayer to the shoulders of business where it rightly belongs.

There are millions in this country who are two pay cheques away from poverty and Covid has tipped many of them into it. What would certainly help would be Universal Basic Income. It would ensure everyone has enough to survive and pay rent and to live with dignity; it would cut huge swathes of costs from the state having to assess benefits and constantly check if people are entitled to them. The cost of the buildings they work in and the staff who work there (and the associated costs) would be cut instantly to fund the scheme. The Lib Dems are promoting this and Labour are thinking about it. I googled UBI the other day and studies done in the countries who have it show lower incidence of sickness, suicide and injury (so less spent on medical care and mental health support). When people have money in their pockets they spend it, thus creating jobs and tax revenue (which is why austerity is such a disastrous economic policy). In studies, the only groups who worked less (ie who were the 'lazy bastards' people think those on handouts are) were mothers with children and teenagers. Mothers (sorry, it wasn't fathers) used the opportunity to spend the time they wanted to with their young children if they didn't have to go out to a workplace - it gave them choices. The teens used the opportunity to take advantage of education. It would certainly give many access to learning opportunities from which they are currently removed.

"The poor have always been blamed for being poor" - Bill Bryson.

I would like to live in a country where everyone can afford to buy the same cup of coffee and pastry in the morning, and where childhood hunger is an unknown. I'm ashamed of the UK right now.

"Wealth creates wealth" is the biggest and most damaging lie capitalism has given us.

@TenThousandSteps

There are millions in this country who are two pay cheques away from poverty and Covid has tipped many of them into it. What would certainly help would be Universal Basic Income. It would ensure everyone has enough to survive and pay rent and to live with dignity; it would cut huge swathes of costs from the state having to assess benefits and constantly check if people are entitled to them. The cost of the buildings they work in and the staff who work there (and the associated costs) would be cut instantly to fund the scheme. The Lib Dems are promoting this and Labour are thinking about it. I googled UBI the other day and studies done in the countries who have it show lower incidence of sickness, suicide and injury (so less spent on medical care and mental health support). When people have money in their pockets they spend it, thus creating jobs and tax revenue (which is why austerity is such a disastrous economic policy). In studies, the only groups who worked less (ie who were the 'lazy bastards' people think those on handouts are) were mothers with children and teenagers. Mothers (sorry, it wasn't fathers) used the opportunity to spend the time they wanted to with their young children if they didn't have to go out to a workplace - it gave them choices. The teens used the opportunity to take advantage of education. It would certainly give many access to learning opportunities from which they are currently removed.

"The poor have always been blamed for being poor" - Bill Bryson.

I would like to live in a country where everyone can afford to buy the same cup of coffee and pastry in the morning, and where childhood hunger is an unknown. I'm ashamed of the UK right now.

You do know the Finnish plan failed right? It was too expensive.

I would like to live in a country where everyone can afford to buy the same cup of coffee and pastry in the morning Well , they can't if you've put all those who assess benefits out of a job can they? If I wanted a coffee and pastry in the morning, I have to get a bus or drive, or make sure I've got pastries in the freezer.

The Finns aren't quite convinced it seems: www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/07/finnish-basic-income-pilot-improved-wellbeing-study-finds-coronavirus

It’s bad that food banks are needed, no government help either.
Trouble is we went from a system that made you almost better off on benefits to the other extreme

The combined year on year effect of what will basically amount to a Hard Brexit (now known as “the Australian style deal”) will end up costing the UK trillions. Which is fine as long as the elite get to make a few hundred million out of it. We have the so called “conservative” party (AKA sell it all off/destroy party) to thank for that.

Yes poverty is relative and yes its definition does evolve

poverty is also about having the capacity to participate in society, to be included not excluded.

If we take for example, access to the internet and ownership of devices. No, of course they are not essential to life. But consider the outcry on this site during lockdown about on line learning. What if you are scraping by, managing to pay bills and eat, but nothing more. You cannot afford broadband or a couple of devices for the kids. What then?
Are you children excluded from education or should the state step in?

As we move more and more on line, internet access is becoming more of a necessity. Personally, I’,m not interested in technology, I resisted getting a mobile phone for a long time, but as more and more organisations, from railways to theatres, on line banking, utilities, even the benefits system etc etc, want you to access their services on line, what is on the face of it a luxury, becomes an essential.

The point about being a couple of pay cheques away from disaster is also important. I have a decent job, if I lost it now I would probably be ok as I have only a year left on my mortgage, a little bit of savings, I could scrape through for a year, but not much more than that.
Over the coming months many many families are going to find out just how easy it is to slip from being ok to being in serious difficulty.

In my opinion ( and I do work in the area of benefits), those in poverty who can't feed their kids are often in that situation because they have debts/ mental health issues/ addictions etc. or cannot work for whatever reason. Universal credit I think is reasonably good for those that can work even a few hours. The government need to look at reducing the cost of extortionate rental costs and invest in social housing which would help enormously.

@Nsky
The trouble is progressive projects like the NHS, social housing, local libraries, targeted national benefit schemes, sure start, etc etc take decades to implement..., but a (so called) conservative government (we haven’t had one of those since Major) can tear them down in a year or two. What takes years to build can be destroyed in moments.

In my city the population that live in poverty are working in the type of sweat shops that have been in the news recently often working for below NMW with no real checks despite the government knowing this is happening. They have large families for cultural reasons usually at least 4/5 kids in the household. English is often minimal hindering work opportunities.

UBI.

We need more council housing.

@Jux

UBI.

And this.

Council housing and UBI.

@SheepandCow

We need more council housing.

So people can buy them on the cheap and sell for a massive profit? No thanks

I think housing costs are the major problem and while people are competing for housing improved benefit rates/universal income/wage increases will lead to further rises in housing costs.

We need a major building programme of affordable housing so that private landlords are forced to compete with social housing for tenants.

I don’t agree with the relative poverty definition. I used to work in housing support and saw the dreadful level of support for single adults (where budgeting for the TV Licence was equal to gas and electric payments and very difficult) but 20% of people don’t live in poverty.

@ChaChaCha2012

When you have shelter, food, education, medical treatments and all of it is free when you need it

But many people don't have those things. Maybe if you close your eyes these people don't exist to you?

WHERE in this country are schools and hospitals with access based on income or wealth?

WHERE in this country are you banned from claiming benefits, Universal Credit, social housing....?

Having less than others is not fun, most of us have a lot less than others. but it's a blatant lie to cry over so-called "poverty" in this country.

It doesn't mean we should wish for people to experience genuine hardship, but there's no need to go over-board.

@jdoejnr1
Definitely no Right To Buy!
One of the most devastating policies of the twentieth century. England needs to catch up with Scotland, Wales, and NI in banning it.

And yet so many of these poor families have sky tv, they smoke and drink. They prioritise these over feeding their children. So many little ones will have fallen through the gap during Covid. Often school dinner is the only decent meal they have.

So people can buy them on the cheap and sell for a massive profit? No thanks

Here's a crazy idea for you...

How about we don't sell off the social housing but keep it for those who need it?

Agreed, I also think you should have to move to a smaller property when your kids leave home or similar. Make way for those who need it the most.

And yet so many of these poor families have sky tv, they smoke and drink. They prioritise these over feeding their children

Do please provide some evidence to back up your prejudice.

I think being short of money is one thing but it is what accompanies that in the most deprived areas that does the real damage to children and their futures.
They often:
Live in poor quality, poor condition housing from birth
Live in houses that are often badly looked after inside- decoration, furniture, cleanliness

Are surrounded by adults who have poor health and lifestyles- diet, smoking, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, don't exercise
Live with people who have not worked for years, if ever
Have to act as carers
Live in areas of high crime and anti-social behaviour
Witness violence or abusive behaviour
Experience a whole childhood of poor parenting that never provides the developmental care, support and relationships children need to grow up with healthy emotions and life habits
Are never supported with education at home
Lack cultural literacy - this has a huge impact on their ability to learn and connect learning together

This kind of poverty is almost insurmountable. These children are behind when they start nursery and the gap just widens as they go through school. It is the effect of long-term, ingrained, systemic poverty.

@PumpkinetChocolat
Housing benefit no longer exists as it used to be. In many parts of the country it pays only a portion of private rents.

It's also often only available on paper. We have a situation where banks and insurance companies insert clauses in mortgages and insurance policies banning benefit tenants.

Landlords won't let to people on benefits because of this.

It's recent thing. Twenty years ago this was unknown, or at least rare.

Also lots of people fall through the gaps - including domestic abuse victims particularly victims of high earning spouse financial abuse.

Then there's the (going on long before the pandemic) DWP admin mistakes and delays, and 'sanctions'.

People are put in debt before they receive their first UC payment because of needing an advance of the 5 week wait for money (to buy essentials like food and pay energy bills).

People are left unable to apply for benefits because UC is online. If you can't afford or access the internet (i.e. because of disability) that's a major barrier.

Then there's very unwell people found 'fit for work' (sometimes several months before dying). It's known to be a particular problems for mentally ill people. Their GPs and hospital consultants are apparently liars, according to the private companies paid huge sums of taxpayer money to 'assess' people.

The UN has condemned our benefits system for the inhumane treatment of the disabled. Things are undeniably bad.