To really dislike my 4 year old at the minute

Clearasmuddypuddles · 2020-10-16T19:39:10+00:00

DS has just turned 4. He has always been a difficult, high maintenance child but the past 3 month have become really difficult. He is so rude. Will shout in my face if he isn’t getting his own way, will speak to me horribly and if I try to put consequences in will shout at me that I’m annoying him and tell me to go away. He can be so lovely sometimes too, and he dotes on his little sister, but then can also be so mean to her, refusing to share or let her join in. I need some advice on appropriate consequences for rudeness please as I can’t cope with the toddler tantrums or the way he speaks to me anymore!

WINDOLENE · 17/10/2020 13:42

Be firm, strong and stick to the rules. Bed at x time everyday. He shouts at you there's a consequence (time out 1 minute for every year old he is). He throws toys.. Time out consequence.
He hits, time out.
It's hard, it's boring but if you dont do something soon he'll continue and it will get worse.

Supernanny on E4 does all these things and boy it works.

gospelsinger · 17/10/2020 14:24

Choose simple, easily enforcable consequences. don't be tempted to escalate the consequences into something you don't want to enforce. Agree with the time out model, unless there is a reason your child has seperation or attachment anxiety. If this is the case, I would go with 'time in' - basically the same as time out except you sit next to them quietly in a specific place for that amount of time. You don't even need to bill it as a punishment. He is expressing a need for you to help him regulate his behaviour and emotions. Sitting quitely for 5 mins will help him calm down.

2020hasbeenbloodyawful · 17/10/2020 14:29

I second the Supernanny method.

It's awful and it's relentless but eventually, they will break and they will come to realise they don't run the show.

Shouting gets one warning and then a time out.

Hitting goes straight to time out.

Being mean to his sister gets one warning and then a time out.

Four is a notoriously awful age in so many respects but you're doing fab. Keep it consistent and don't let him get away with a jot.

Speaking nastily gets one warning and then a time out.

LG101 · 17/10/2020 14:35

Try to model the behaviour you would like. If they shout do not shout back. Come down to their level and explain the behaviour isn’t acceptable. If they choose to keep on behaving badly then time out / consequence.

Don’t ever say anything you can’t follow through with, I’ve heard parents saying if you don’t behave we are leaving but they have no intention of leaving. If you say they can’t go to the park for 2 days etc you need to stand firm. Always try to explain yourself, you can’t do that because rather than just saying no.

Diverseduvet · 17/10/2020 14:38

He sounds unhappy. Have you given into him and are now facing the consequences?

AriesTheRam · 17/10/2020 14:39

4 year olds can be twats op,I'm only just coming out the other side with a 6 year old.I totally get it.

44PumpLane · 17/10/2020 15:36

I have twins who will be 4 at the end of November and I feel your pain, sometimes they can be challenging.

Like others say, don't threaten things you're not going to do, it weakens you. (my husband is a bit of an idiot for this "I'm going to throw xyz into the bin".... Well clearly he's not so don't be ridiculous)!

We use time out and lots of explaining of why they are in time out, sitting with them and calming things down. When they get themselves worked up I make them breathe in through their nose and out through their mouth to calm down, its a way to get them to focus.

You could make a glitter time out bottle.... Lots of recipes on Google but it's a mix of water, glitter glue and ultra fine glitter. You shake it up and they have to sit with it until it settles, but as it's pretty and interesting it can help them focus while they calm down.

Stomp this shit out now or you'll have bigger problems when you have a beligerant teen.

BoyTree · 17/10/2020 15:54

I have had a lot of success with 'shall we have a day where I talk to you the way you talk to me?' which I have threatened but never had to do yet as a brief demonstration usually does the trick, alongside explanations that kids can hurt grown ups' feelings, it's ok to be cross but not to be unkind, ideas of what they can do when they're feeling frustrated and taking

BoyTree · 17/10/2020 15:56

Talking about how your tone of voice and attitude really affect people's willingness to help/do things for you.

I try to give then skills to use alternatives to shouting and it does go in eventually!

NameChange30 · 17/10/2020 16:06

YANBU.
My 3.5 is an absolute pain atm and I don't like him most of the time
I found the book "how to talk so little kids will listen" and the articles on ahaparenting.com quite helpful.
He is resisting a lot of the techniques that usually work (or had done until recently) but this might be my fault, I'm exhausted (sleep deprived thanks to a newborn) and have less patience with him as a result.
Thank God for nursery though, the days he goes are my favourite days atm

NannyR · 17/10/2020 16:09

The book "123 magic" is well worth a read for this age group. Even if you don't do the whole method there is a lot of helpful advice on how to talk to kids and deal with behaviour.

pollylocketpickedapocket · 17/10/2020 16:10

What do you suggest as a time out?? I put my dd who’s 4 another room and shut her in there alone for a minute but it feels a bit cruel!!

2bazookas · 17/10/2020 16:23

I'd wonder where he's learning /copying that rude aggression from, and remove him from that influence. Is it TV programs, screen games? Nursery? Other households where he has playdates?

 You don't have to put up with it, and shouldn't, for his sake as much as yours.

Wtfdidwedo · 17/10/2020 16:34

Mine is about the same age and I was about to write the exact same post. I'm quite entertained by the timeout suggestions. My daughter can easily sob/scream at full volume for 10-15 minutes until she's nearly sick so the idea of just popping her in a corner for four minutes seems a bit pointless.

I had CBT for PND/anger management before myself and it made no difference, and similarly talking to her calmly/hugging her/all those techniques from the 'How To Talk..' book make zero difference. If something doesn't go right first time for her she is inconsolable. Lockdown really hasn't helped her already difficult temper. And neither has longer hours in nursery which make her exhausted and evil every day.

updownroundandround · 17/10/2020 16:40

@Clearasmuddypuddles

The key phrase you dropped was '' if I try to put consequences''

You are the parent and he is the child, so there cannot be any confusion.

You dictate the rules, he has to follow them or he faces the consequences !

Stay calm and controlled. He gets one warning.

''Put your sweetie wrapper in the bin please'' - He refuses
''If you don't put it in the bin, then you won't get to watch Paw Patrol tonight'' - he still refuses or is rude/ yells......
''OK, you haven't done what Mummy asked you to do, so no Paw Patrol tonight.
You ignore any tantrum/ screaming etc except to tell him ''I won't listen to you until you've calmed down, put your wrapper in the bin, and say Sorry for shouting'' and then pay all your attention to your other DC until your son has calmed down, put his wrapper in the bin and can apologize and join in.

He will try to goad you into paying him attention, usually by being even more badly behaved, but if you keep (calmly) repeating then paying attention to the child who is behaving well, and not giving him attention for behaving badly, he'll realize that behaving well will get him more of your attention than acting badly does.

And above all ALWAYS follow through with the punishment ! It doesn't matter if he's been an angel since the row in the morning, he does not get to watch Paw Patrol that evening.

Kids who see that you never follow through with your 'punishments' will never behave well for you.

Straven123 · 17/10/2020 16:45

I do think a 4 year old can appear quite mature when compared to the new baby .
But one thing if it's possible is some me time away from DCs, it's the relentlessness which wears you down imv, can you possibly have some real time away from both- preferably out of the house?

Pumperthepumper · 17/10/2020 17:26

[quote updownroundandround]@Clearasmuddypuddles

The key phrase you dropped was '' if I try to put consequences''

You are the parent and he is the child, so there cannot be any confusion.

You dictate the rules, he has to follow them or he faces the consequences !

Stay calm and controlled. He gets one warning.

''Put your sweetie wrapper in the bin please'' - He refuses
''If you don't put it in the bin, then you won't get to watch Paw Patrol tonight'' - he still refuses or is rude/ yells......
''OK, you haven't done what Mummy asked you to do, so no Paw Patrol tonight.
You ignore any tantrum/ screaming etc except to tell him ''I won't listen to you until you've calmed down, put your wrapper in the bin, and say Sorry for shouting'' and then pay all your attention to your other DC until your son has calmed down, put his wrapper in the bin and can apologize and join in.

He will try to goad you into paying him attention, usually by being even more badly behaved, but if you keep (calmly) repeating then paying attention to the child who is behaving well, and not giving him attention for behaving badly, he'll realize that behaving well will get him more of your attention than acting badly does.

And above all ALWAYS follow through with the punishment ! It doesn't matter if he's been an angel since the row in the morning, he does not get to watch Paw Patrol that evening.

Kids who see that you never follow through with your 'punishments' will never behave well for you.[/quote]
This is absolutely terrible advice. He’s four years old - he doesn’t have the brain capacity yet to associate ‘bad in morning equals punishment hours later’, he’ll have forgotten all about it by then, and he’ll never, ever trust a parent who punished him for (to him) no reason.

If this is constant behaviour OP then I’d say something is going wrong somewhere in your day-to-day. So you need to work out what it is that makes him tick.

I hate punishments, so I’d say everything should have a positive spin, ie make everything into a game or praise him for doing even the most basic things well. If he doesn’t want to share is that really such a big deal? How often do you share your stuff with other people?

You can’t see him as the bad guy or something to be controlled at all times, he’s still very little.

Pumperthepumper · 17/10/2020 17:28

Also time out is a horrible thing to do when they’re upset, regardless of how that upset is manifest. You’re expecting him to be in total control of his own emotions at four and you’re punishing him for something he can’t help. Think of the last time something upset you and imagine if someone pushed you away to sit alone and deal with it alone - and you have the capacity to explain your feelings. He doesn’t.

Original poster

Clearasmuddypuddles · 17/10/2020 17:42

Thanks everyone; it helps to know I’m not alone with tricky children!

I don’t know where he is getting the rudeness from. He watches a small amount of TV in the evening (usually paw patrol), has a tablet but only uses it to watch Paw Patrol in the car. He goes to preschool so could be there.

It’s been brewing for a long time really. He was always a difficult baby and toddler, is very emotional, cries a lot. Has some sensory issues so is always moaning jumpers, socks etc are annoying him.

Quick example of the rudeness- Friday evening is always freezer dinner. He asked for chicken nuggets and peas. I made chicken nuggets and peas. He sits at the table and cries that he wants fish fingers. I calmly tell him he asked for chicken nuggets and so he can’t have fish fingers and he shouts at me “I want fish fingers, make me fish fingers NOW”. I removed him from the table and told him he was welcome to come back and join us for dinner when he wasn’t shouting at people anymore.

OP posts:

Pumperthepumper · 17/10/2020 18:14

It’s been brewing for a long time really. He was always a difficult baby and toddler, is very emotional, cries a lot. Has some sensory issues so is always moaning jumpers, socks etc are annoying him.

Ok, so you’re in it for the long haul then. So you need to stop seeing his as the enemy and start seeing him as an emotional four year old who you have to be one step ahead of.

So, if that’s a typical dinner time, why not ask him to set the table and get everyone a drink, keep reminding him he’s having chicken nuggets, if he doesn’t want them when it’s put in front of him then keep it light - say ‘oh, I thought you’d like to make a nice dip to go with them’ and let him mix mayo and tomato sauce together. Or say ‘oh good! I was worried you’d want to eat the nuggets because they turn you into Chase from Paw Patrol’ - then ‘oh no, where’s Jack gone? How did you get in here Chase?!’ When he eats one. Or say he can butter his own bread to have with them, or absolutely anything that will make him think you’re on his team.

Wtfdidwedo · 17/10/2020 18:17

The above technique is what I do the majority of the time with my similar child but it is absolutely exhausting after working all week and looking after other children, so you have my absolute empathy OP.

InTheFamilyTree · 17/10/2020 18:33

That's what I used to do with my feisty 3.5 year old, but wondered if it backfired slightly as realised she just needs to here 'no' sometimes, as part of the learning that other people have needs, it's not all about her.

I'm curious what people use, if not time out. Agree that kids need help to regulate emotions, but what about fiercely independent minded and quite demanding kids? We use positive rewards, marble jar, immediate natural consequences, but still feel we don't seem to have it right

Pumperthepumper · 17/10/2020 18:52

I'm curious what people use, if not time out.

Use for what?

Rainallnight · 17/10/2020 18:56

My four year old is very similar at the moment. It’s exhausting.

Catscrat · 17/10/2020 19:09

No real advice OP, but just to offer solidarity! My DD was 4 in July and I’m finding it the most challenging age so far. The f*ing fours I’ve heard it called! Toddler tantrums have nothing on the rages she has now! Slammed doors, shouting, meltdowns, rudely demanding what she wants ‘right NOW!’ etc etc. She wasn’t a particularly difficult baby or toddler either. I think lockdown, a new baby brother and starting school have probably made things worse. I’ve been reading the book a PP mentioned, How to Talk so Little Kids Will Listen. I try my best to be compassionate to her overwhelming feelings as well as firm when I need to be, but sometimes I just lose it and shout when she pushes my buttons. You’re not alone!