Age DOES affect how tragic death is

[Bumpitybumper]

In the current climate and for obvious reasons, I see a lot of discussion about the average age of people dying from Coronavirus and how it is skewed significantly towards the elderly. Inevitably, this will lead to some claiming that this fact is irrelevant and a life is a life and any death is equally tragic. Talk of amending our approach towards the virus because of the average age of the people dying is shot down quickly. The implication being that any acknowledgement that the loss of an elderly person's life is less significant or tragic than a young person is implying that the elderly are expendable or don't matter.

To be clear, I don't think either of those things BUT I do think most people tend to find death more tragic and significant the younger the victim. My theory is that death is an inevitability for all of us, but there is a presumed "normal" lifespan and therefore young people that have died are viewed to have had less opportunity/experience and lost more years.

The ultimate test I believe is that if there was an emergency (e.g. burning building) most people would opt to save the younger person over an elderly person if only one could be saved. I think if children are involved then again most people would rescue them as a priority over adults.

So AIBU to think age does affect how we perceive death?

It does I think.
From a health care perspective, caring for COVID patients when we have an older patient admitted I confess that my heart is filled with fear & dread for that person, survival is on a knife edge despite throwing every super power we have at them, and we do. We work so so hard on trying to get them better & home to their family. Age doesn’t come into it.
Past medical history does though. Older people carry past medical history with them in terms of multiple medications and long term conditions.

Younger patients carry a harder emotional burden as they could have young families relying on them, so much sadness for so many people surrounding them. So much life & potential in front of them. Again, throwing every single thing we at them to get them better is the same as an elderly patient.

From a health care perspective it is so so difficult, emotional, sad and upsetting no matter the age.
We want to save them all.
Care in life (hanging by a thread) and care in death is the same. We wash them, put a lovely clean gown on them, comb their hair. I clean and replace their teeth, I put lovely fresh sheets on for them and say goodbye to them as if they are my family. That I/we do for everyone, regardless of age every single time.

YANBU

When my grandparent's die it will be really sad. We will grieve them and it will be a huge loss.

It won't compare with the loss of my children's father who died at the age of 39 leaving our three children grieving and with multiple issues from it. That was tragic.

The elderly are not expendable at all and they absolutely should be protected as much as possible, but of course the age someone dies does affect how tragic we view a death.

Yanbu. My 90yo great aunt is 'waiting for God' as she puts it, has been utterly heartbroken since my great uncle died a few years ago and feels humiliated every day by having people 'do' for her - personal care, feeding etc. It will be a relief for her when she dies, and a release for her family and friends.

A very old school friend age 46 died very suddenly of a brain haemorrhage over summer. Complete shock all round, leaving partner and children. Utterly bereft. Very different feeling to when an elderly relative passes

Of course it is, a young person hasn't had the chance to live their lives.

Death is what happens to all of us eventually, but nowadays we don't expect it to happen until we've had a really good shot at life. A young person who has their life ripped away is cheated out of decades of life, all their plans, the chance to start a family. An old person has already had that chance.

That doesn't mean old people shouldn't be respected, protected and cherished, but of course someone of 90 dying is different from someone of 19

You see this at wakes and funereals. Wakes where an elderly person has died are often lovely - lots of swapping stories and reminiscing and enjoying seeing family. Of course you miss them, but generally the old person in question actively wants that sort of send off

When a young one dies, nobody is cracking jokes or telling old stories.

I think covid has shown how detached people are from death. For the first time in history we can mostly all expect to live until we're old, it's our right. Very few of us even slaughter our own meat, many people will get to their 30s and 40s without having to attend any other funereal except perhaps their grandparents. And overall that's brilliant, christ I'm glad for it personally - but I do think it lulls us into a sense that death isn't really something that applies to us anymore.

Past generations were keen on the idea of the memento mori for a very good reason.

Basically I don't think we're emotionally equipped any more to make the sort of decisions we're being asked to make during this pandemic. 100 years ago, in my area anyway, old people would have been told to read their Bible and thank God for the life they'd had and try and make a good death. I don't advocate for that either by the way, but I think the issue now is that we're trying to save everyone and everything all at once, because we live in a society where we generally can have everything we want and the doctors usually fix us all, and actually it's becoming obvious that it's not working this time, something is going to give,but we don't have any control over what it's going to be because we've lost that slightly callous "well everyone dies" attitude that was such a part of humanity for millenia

I was so close to my nan, she meant the world to me but she was almost 90 when she died and she wanted to see her people again. I accepted it and smile thinking of her.

Nice to see the ageism alive and well.

Lives matter.

A considered DNR for those with a terminal prognosis is one thing.

Failing to help the frailest out of a burning building first is just utter shit.

This is yet another 'let the elderly die' corona thread. Because some people are really OK with openly publishing that they think other people's lives are less important than theirs. Based on age/infirmity.

@ReallySpicyCurry that is the best post I have read about this whole situation for a very long time.

Anyone dying before their time because they were unlucky enough to contract a virus is a tragedy. What people are forgetting though is people who are said to have died "with" coronavirus will have often had seriously compromised health anyway.

There is also a natural way of the world, someone dying young is being robbed of a life. Many, but not all, elderly are more accepting of death.

YANBU it's sad when our loved ones die and it's sad that people are dying alone rather than with their loved ones.
But I dont think the death of an 80 year old compares to that of an 8 year old. The person is more prepared and understanding of death. Their family has been mentally preparing for years for their death. And they've lived their life. When a child is taken away before their time, before they've lived, when their mum has dreamed of their future and seen love and success and instead their baby has been taken from them its horrific. If doesn't mean old people are expendable, but they and us are prepared for it, if its not covid now, it's a heart attack next year, or a series of strokes, or dementia.

Age AND circumstances are equally important.

Regardless of age, if someone dies in tragic or unexpected circumstances this is equally difficult for all those around to come to terms with.

I think it's desperately sad that we allow elderly people to suffer so much at the end of their lives that everyone is relieved when they do die. That's pretty tragic.

I’m an ICU dr. I spend a lot of my week telling people the person they love the most has died, will die or might die.

I really don’t agree. I don’t think you can weigh one death against another. I have no idea what age you’d arbitrarily select as ok to die. Some of the saddest deaths I see are of old people with equally old spouses left alone after 50 years of marriage.

I lost a parent at 20. I don’t assume it’s any less terrible if you’re 60. Sometimes I feel very frustrated with adult children in their 60s demanding ‘everything’ for their 95 year old mother, and that is not what I offer their elderly mother as I don’t torture old people because their relatives have never faced loss. But I understand why they are so stressed and hurt by the thought of a parent’s death.

I have also palliated people in their twenties, and even children, whose death I consider a blessed release for them.

User - i couldn't agree more. We dont allow our pets to suffer

I think it is circumstances which make a death 'tragic'

Not age.

I agree but I think some people consider the deaths of people on their 60’s early 70’s and maybe even late 50’s the same way the do as say your aunt in her 80’s 90’s.

I think there is a tendency, sometimes on here but mostly in my experience in real life, to group these generations together.

My mum is 65 and dad 69. They are no less active , needed by family or enjoying life than the average person in their 40’s and as an example their loss would be tragic and life changing to me and my family. But I think some people’s attitude would “well they’ve had a a fair few years behind them” or that sort of thing.

A man I know died this week (not of Covid) age 41. He leaves behind a devastated wife and three very young children who are going to have to grow up without a father.

Sorry if I'm being ageist, but how is that not more tragic than the death of, for example, my own Dad, who I love very much, but who is 83 with middle aged children and a long, happy life behind him?

I entirely agree op. I attended within a few months the funeral of a 21 year old and an 83 year old. The former was utterly tragic, the latter rather sad but there was a life well lived to celebrate rather than the loss of a life ahead to mourn.

In the current circumstances I believe we must be careful not to throw the next generation under the bus for the sake of preventing deaths which are likely soon to be inevitable in any event.

In context DH and I are doing our best to care for elderly parents in their 80s from a distance. Mine who have each other are broadly fine and getting to the shops, out walking, seeing an occasional friend (tier 1) - all within the rules. MIL who is widowed has had a bad lockdown her routine of: church, luncheon club, drama group, hairdressers, book club was shot to pieces back in March, depression/dementia has set in and she now needs daily carers to keep her on the straight and narrow. Her quality of life has gone.

EdithWeston But do you consider the circumstance of dying of Covid to be tragic? Compared to another illness?

I found my grandparents deaths very easy to process if that makes sense. Around 90, they had all lived full lives but had reached a point where they had lost the ability to do the things that gave their lives meaning. We miss them terribly but there was nothing tragic in their passing.

I agree to a point but I think dying of COVID, alone on a ward, is a tragic ending to any life. Until recently those with terminal illnesses would have usually had someone with them at the end.

I agree. The recent ONS and Oxford University study found that the average age of people dying with COVID is 82. Bearing in mind that the average life expectancy in the U.K. is 81 the COVID deaths seem far less tragic for this age group.

My mum died earlier this year, she was 89. Her life was getting more and more difficult, she hated having carers, she could barely move out of her chair, but she wasn't 'ill'.

She went into hospital as she was dehydrated, then lockdown happened; my sister and I believed she should go into a home, she wanted to go home, the hospital said she is mentally competent and not ill, so she went home.

She died 36 hours later. We, of course, were terribly upset, but we realised she had had enough, she just wanted to die at home. The cause of death was old age. I miss her dreadfully, but I know she had a full and happy life, and take some comfort from that.

When my BiL died aged 43 with 3 young children, it seemed, not only tragic, but a complete waste, he still had a life to live.

I really don’t agree. I don’t think you can weigh one death against another. I have no idea what age you’d arbitrarily select as ok to die. Some of the saddest deaths I see are of old people with equally old spouses left alone after 50 years of marriage.

This. Of course it is tragic when a young person dies, but when older people die and leave behind a long standing spouse, siblings, friends it is just as sad for those left. I used to think like the OP until I attended an elderly neighbour's funeral. She was 90 but living alone and coping well, but died after a car accident. Outside the church I saw an elderly woman sobbing - it turned out she her sister and was the last surviving sibling of a big family. Elderly people who are unwell/suffering are often ready to go, but most who are in relatively good health no more want to die than the rest of us do.

It is only one thing among many factors that could make a death tragic. Assuming that all old people's deaths are less or not tragic because they are old seems to be hunting for a simple moral distinction where there is none.

We treat our vulnerable elderly poorly in this country anyway and this line of thinking that their lives are just less important is a key part of the reason that happens.

Avoidable deaths are tragic, regardless of how old the person is. It is clear that, had the government acted promptly this second wave could we have been significantly reduced.

I'm struggling to understand @Bumpitybumper what possessed you to post this.

It's so obvious.

Of course a young life lost is more tragic.