Age DOES affect how tragic death is

[Bumpitybumper]

In the current climate and for obvious reasons, I see a lot of discussion about the average age of people dying from Coronavirus and how it is skewed significantly towards the elderly. Inevitably, this will lead to some claiming that this fact is irrelevant and a life is a life and any death is equally tragic. Talk of amending our approach towards the virus because of the average age of the people dying is shot down quickly. The implication being that any acknowledgement that the loss of an elderly person's life is less significant or tragic than a young person is implying that the elderly are expendable or don't matter.

To be clear, I don't think either of those things BUT I do think most people tend to find death more tragic and significant the younger the victim. My theory is that death is an inevitability for all of us, but there is a presumed "normal" lifespan and therefore young people that have died are viewed to have had less opportunity/experience and lost more years.

The ultimate test I believe is that if there was an emergency (e.g. burning building) most people would opt to save the younger person over an elderly person if only one could be saved. I think if children are involved then again most people would rescue them as a priority over adults.

So AIBU to think age does affect how we perceive death?

YANBU. While every early death is tragic, there is something absolutely horrific and unnatural about children dying.

For younger adults, they often have children and older relatives depending on them day-to-day so their deaths often have more practical impact. I am terrified of dying because I am the primary day-to-day carer for my DC. They are emotionally and practically dependent on me. If I was suddenly removed, it would cause immense trauma. For that reason, it makes me so sad when I read of young parents dying and their children being left orphaned and alone.

Sorry, should have written parents of young children not young parents - the parents may not be young!

YANBU, I lost my Brother in a tragedy at a young age. I still many many years later am upset and angry he didn't get to live his life. I've lost all my Grandparebts and I was sad at the time I just think of them with happiness.

we live in a society where we generally can have everything we want and the doctors usually fix us all

Not only that, people are not allowed to end their lives if they want to, but need help to do so. We have a culture of prolonging lives at all costs because we worry about greedy relatives and inheritances; yet so many people suffer unnecessarily, eg with MND.

My dad was 60 when he died. My mum was 57 at the time. I was 16 and as heartbroken as I was, I didn't think it was especially young from my very young perspective. I am now 57 and cannot comprehend the idea of losing DH at such a "young" age. My colleague's DH died last week, also 57. It is utterly tragic.

I see your point OP but where do you draw the line?

Oops, should have checked before posting

Of course it does.

A young person dying is tragic because of the loss of potential, and a larger circle of loss.
When an old person dies, yes it's sad. But in many cases, "they've had their innings."

My mum still talks about the card she received from my dad's grandma, upon hearing the news my mum was pregnant with future me. Grandma was in her early 90s at the time, and said, "what wonderful news about the baby! I better hurry up and die to make room for it!" That same grandma carried on almost another decade! When she did eventually die, just a couple of weeks short of 100, her funeral was purely a celebration of a life well lived.

A 2 year old dying from Covid is more tragic than a 102 year old dying from Covid simply because the elderly person has lived a long life but the toddler has only just started. So yes, younger people dying is more tragic in that sense.

But what you are saying isn't really what's happening in these boards. Because what I see is less about the tragedy of people losing lives and more about the implication that older people are expendable because they were going to die soon anyway. And that is what is wrong. I have seen horrible posts where people are saying they don't want to social distance "just to save your nan". That old people are happy to sacrifice the younger generation to protect them. That is the attitude that is sickening. It's very "me, me, me...as long as I'm ok then why should I consider old people who are going to die anyway soon".I think that's a despicable attitude to have.

So I think it's fine to acknowledge the tragedy of losing younger people but that doesn't mean that's it's ok to think older people are not expendable simply because they have lived a longer life.

My kids lost their dad while at primary and secondary school when he was in his 40s. I consider that more tragic than if i were to lose my dad now I'm 50 and he's in his 80s

Absolutely agree @Yesyoudoknowme ,I'm nearly 47 my parents are both 78 neither are ready to die just yet and I'm not ready to lose them yet either and I lost all my grandparents between the age of 22 and 28 and whilst it was sad ,I was a bit more removed from them than to my parents .

YANBU.

If course you will be accused of ageism (and me I guess) when what you are saying is the truth and everyday reality.

It's the same with pets, I can accept my elderly dog with cancer will not be with me much longer and it's massively upsetting. But she is near the end of her natural life and her quality of life has declined considerably.
If she was struck down in her prime, that would have grieved me so much more.

Similarly, my dad died unexpectedly at 62. We felt cheated. His parents were well in their 80s when they went, and his grandparents also did well. We thought we'd have at least another 20 years of dad. But it wasn't to be.

Oddly, a very dear friend gave birth to a baby girl on the same day dad died. And seeing her slowly grow up makes me think of all the time now that dad has been gone.

@user128472578267 agree totally. I work in community nursing primarily with the elderly and in care homes a lot and it is really apparent that a lot of elderly are kept alive now with quantity instead of quality of life considered

I’m an ICU dr. I spend a lot of my week telling people the person they love the most has died, will die or might die

I really don’t agree. I don’t think you can weigh one death against another. I have no idea what age you’d arbitrarily select as ok to die. Some of the saddest deaths I see are of old people with equally old spouses left alone after 50 years of marriage

This.

Yanbu. Of course a young person's death is usually more tragic than an elderly person's death. Doesn't mean old people are expendable though does it? Daft thread.

My father died aged 69, he was an amazing man who died before his time and a 1000 years would not be enough for us to have him in his life. I grieve his passing dearly. My darling friend died aged 22 in March, her life was stolen before she had a chance to do all the things she should have. There is a difference. Everyone's grief is individual.

@Inastatus

YANBU - when my Mum died years ago in her 70’s I was devastated and then I lost my dad in his 80’s and I experienced the same sort of grief. However, in the depths of my sadness it was comforting to know that they had enjoyed a long happy, fulfilled life.

However, a year after my Dad, my sister died. She was only 50 and her death hit me on a whole new level. Children are supposed to outlive their parents - it’s the natural order of things but I still can’t get over the loss of my sister and best friend who I thought I would grow old with.

I'm sorry, that's so tragic

Yes i agree but some people really don't see it like this. My dad died suddenly and unexpectedly at 54, leaving my mum and 2 kids in their early 20s, one pregnant with his first grandchild.

My FIL's widowed mother died shortly after, after years of ill health, aged 95. Her only son was in his 60s.

All i have heard since then is how our families have been through the same thing and the tragedy is the same. At first i was sympathetic but now i just want to say ITS NOT THE BLOODY SAME!!!! But to FIL, who is a lovely man in every way, we have both lost parents and so that's why its the same.

My DM died in her early 50s she didn’t get to see any of us marry, missed out on her grandchildren and so many other special moments. Her mother, my DGM, died just short of her 90birthday having seen all her grandchildren marry and been around for most of her great grandchildren. She never failed to remind us at every opportunity that it should have been her that died first and for 30 yrs ( after grandfathers death) was not long for this world.
I would love for my parents to have survived beyond middle age and being facing Covid in their 80s.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat if the toddler was your child I suspect your answer would be different. My father would rather be dead than go through the grief of one of his grandchildren dying to save him. He would willingly give his life to save younger members of his family.

Yanbu OP and no one with any common sense would think otherwise. This isn’t the same as saying everyone over a certain age shouldn’t be treated/ should have a DNR, however which some people seem to equate it to.

People over 80 have a pretty high chance of dying each year (10% or so I think?). Obviously those in good health will have a lower risk than that, but still way way higher than a younger person.

Death is the only thing that is certain in life and unfortunately death is ageist whether we like it or not.

Where would you draw the line?

Easy question - dementia.

I speak with some (actually a lot of) experience of seeing family members live a long time with advanced dementia. Total change of personality, not knowing who they are nor their family members, doubly incontinent and constantly confused and distressed.

Dementia isn’t being a little bit dotty and amusingly eccentric. It is a long, hellish road for all concerned.

It is not any kind of tragedy when someone dies of dementia in a care home - of anything , not just Covid - it is a relief. Imo wanting someone to carry on living with dementia in a care home (and frankly by the time they’re in a care home they are in a bad way) is not compassionate, it’s sadistic.

On the fire subject. I would save the person I came to first, I wouldn't run past someone to get to someone else. But if the left window had a 90yo woman at it, and the right window had a 3yo girl, I'd go right.
I also, and this might sound bad, I wouldn't give my life for an elderly person, I would not hesitate to put myself at risk for a child. If they were stood in the road and I saw a car coming, I'd shout for the elderly person to get out the road, I'd run into the road to save the child.

Extrapolating that view, it would be easier to lose a parent at 8 and easier still as a toddler

Really?

My partner died in an accident and our DD was 11months old, are you saying she didn't want her mum? giving her formula instead of the breast?
You didn't comfort her when she wake up screaming for her mummy, no memories, just photos and stories.

When my Mum died in her late 80s, it was very sad and i miss her terribly every day but its not the same as the death of a much younger person, whose death also ends an awful lot of dreams and ambitions.

I work in community nursing primarily with the elderly and in care homes a lot and it is really apparent that a lot of elderly are kept alive now with quantity instead of quality of life considered

I think this is a different issue. But then maybe again, maybe it gets to the heart of it. In that we have to regard people as individuals. Some people do want to hang onto every last bit of life. Others want to be able to decide its time for themselves to go. I remember hearing two old ladies in a care home talking. One was heartbroken after the death of her husband (showing that very elderly lives do have value, and maybe mean everything to those closest to them),she was blind and said he used to read to me. Now he's gone I want to go too. Another old lady, also sight impaired, said, ' well I can still just about see the red of those flowers, that brings me joy and its enough for me to want to go on.'
And there's the rub. We have to see people as individuals, with individual meaningful connections in life. Not stick them in a group and make judgements on them.

I can't answer this with a click.

You can't quantify loss (or love).

I know that when I thought a car might hit my toddler daughter, I tried to throw myself between her and the car, I think that is parental instinct.