"Don't worry, we can just do it at mine instead"

[rainbowrain107]

Lunch booking for group of 6 friends in London booked for Saturday. Obviously, can't go ahead now as the restaurant likely to be funny about 6 adults traipsing in. However the organiser has already announced to everyone that she'll just host at hers instead.

This attempt at lockdown just isn't going to work is it?

We wont be living this way forever.
Bingo. And we were also told "we can turn this virus around in twelve weeks", so I'm not holding out much hope for restrictions coming to an end any time soon.

Wow..... how many people that don't care anymore might end up like this poor chap....

people.com/health/man-called-covid-hoax-feels-guilty-14-family-members-test-positive-2-die/

I guess if/when the hospitals do struggle a harder lockdown or people not being able to access ICU etc then a bit too late ..... it would appear from the Liverpool locals that Liverpool hospitals are struggling to cope...

Now covid might not get you BUT if you are in a car crash and the hsopital is snarled up with covid.... or you need cancer treatment and the hospital is snarled up with covid....or accident and you need the hospital etc etc.... then I imagine some might wonder if only they had just followed a few simple guidelines?

I'm clinically extremely vulnerable. My DS is 17. He goes to 6th form, plays football and works part time in a shop, all of which I support and encourage. I WFH and leave the house very rarely. DH is the same.

My biggest fear is not contracting COVID and how it will affect me but how my DS will feel if that happens. It would be a terrible burden. We try to mitigate that potential guilt by "following the rules" as I hope it will help him if I do fall ill.

Northernsoullover “ I don't care if you die either. I care if I do though”

Do you follow all the mask and sanitizer etc when flu deaths are high? Would you like to see restrictions in bad flu seasons?

In my city the areas of high covid rates are the ones where there are universities or areas where the BAME community tend to live. There do seem to be a high number of the BAME (more AME than black) community not wearing masks. I don't know if there is a cultural reason why they feel they cannot.

[quote DappledOliveGroves]@AcornAutumn very pleased to meet you

I am so sick of all of this and I fail to understand the logic or impetus driving the response to Covid.

It's the same as climate change (hear me out -
It is relevant). There are groups like Extinction Rebellion etc jumping up and down about climate change and how we MUST stop it. But no one explains why. If the human race wipes itself out, who cares? The earth will keep turning (far more happily I imagine), the universe will presumably still exist. Why do humans think we're so special and significant when in reality we are wholly irrelevant?

Similarly with Covid and any other disease or natural catastrophe that's ever occurred. We are not in control - why do we pretend we are? The Boxing Day tsunami killed a quarter of a million people in a split second. TB kills millions every year. Famine and war kill even more. And now we're restricting people's lives and liberties with absolutely no clear goal or focus and we're supposed to nod along and comply? No, no, no.[/quote]
God, what a sensible post.

@Cantthinkofausename

I dont think the restuarant will turn you away tbf. That sector is struggling as it is

I wouldn't be turning anyone away. "Shooting" "Self" and "Foot" would come to mind.

@zigaziga

I’d comply if I thought it was that simple - a few weeks lockdown and the virus goes away. It’s not, the virus is out there and the only way out is herd immunity (a vaccine will likely help that but it’s not a magic wand). We can have a circuit breaker and then be in the same situation in a months time. Nothing went away in the first lockdown - you’d think it would have eradicated the common cold and flu and chicken pox etc too but guess what, autumn seems to be the same as usual..) So I guess do we want this to be life now or do we want to still see those we love and try and keep meaning to our lives..?

This, too.

@DappledOliveGroves

I'd reply with, 'thank you, what can I bring?'

If my city goes into a different tier I'm not complying. There is no plan, the government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and the first lock down was bad enough for my mental health.

If I get Covid and die then so fucking be it. I'm sick of everyone wanting immortality. At a personal level I'm sure my family will be upset but at a macro level the world is overpopulated and I'm wholly insignificant.

@DappledOliveGroves You are writing my posts for me today.

Compared to the effects (on me) of lockdown - social, economic, physical, and mental - I'd opt for Covid any day. I have done nothing to prevent myself from catching it since it came along. I have always washed my hands before/after handling food, when coming in from town etc, but have done absolutely nothing else differently. I did not stay at home in March and April. Yet I still haven't caught it.

You hit the nail on the head with the 'immortality' thing, too. Why do people seem to think that immortality is either possible or desirable? It is neither.

I've just had a friend send me a tentative message (she had invited a few of us for lunch next week), to say that she's happy to go ahead - but that we should perhaps bring our own sandwiches. I've said I'll bring my own table and chair if it means we can go ahead.

I'm also fucked off with this "Long Covid" business, as if Covid had some kind of magical qualities which meant that, in some cases, it drags on with coughing, fatigue, etc, etc, etc.

Bit like several other illnesses I've had, then. I'm now going to adopt a tone of reverence and talk about my "Long Pleurisy".

“ I'm now going to adopt a tone of reverence and talk about my "Long Pleurisy".”

Do!

Every time someone says it to me, I remind them of my post viral health but maybe I should call it Long Pneumonia....

Similarly with Covid and any other disease or natural catastrophe that's ever occurred. We are not in control - why do we pretend we are? The Boxing Day tsunami killed a quarter of a million people in a split second. TB kills millions every year. Famine and war kill even more. And now we're restricting people's lives and liberties with absolutely no clear goal or focus and we're supposed to nod along and comply? No, no, no

Well, if MN is anything to go by, lots of people aren't going to bother following any restrictions, so I think we are about to find out whether we're better off letting the virus run its course.

BTW, about a million and a half people worldwide die of TB every year. Covid has killed over a million in less than a year and that's with most of the world locking down for months. Does that not tell you something?

@Trumanshow I've reported your post. Just nastiness.

I’d comply if I thought it was that simple - a few weeks lockdown and the virus goes away. It’s not, the virus is out there and the only way out is herd immunity (a vaccine will likely help that but it’s not a magic wand).

Yes. The whole ‘the longer people don’t obey the rules, the longer this goes on for’ or ‘if you don’t follow the restrictions we won’t be able to spend Christmas with our families’ is absolute rubbish and incredibly patronising - like we’re a bunch of schoolchildren. I’m not an expert but that isn’t how viruses work, is it? I’m amazed any adult who did KS3 science swallows it.

We’re being told that because it provides an easy explanation for why 3 weeks became 6 weeks, which became 3 months, which became 6 months, which became until Christmas, which became for the foreseeable future. And it’s designed to distract us.

@Youandmeareluckytobeus

I guess nothing stops Londoners heading out of London to go to a restaurant? If I was a restaurant owner and 6 people came in, I would want to ensure we were complying so would at least asking they are from the same household. I'd prefer hospitality to be able to request proof of address.

I assume whoever posted this means they'd travel to a tier 1 location so they are allowed to meet up indoors

@bibbitybobbitycats all it tells me is that we hear nothing about the other infectious diseases or causes of death that kill far more than Covid, because mostly they affect people in developing countries and don't impact the middle-classes in Western nations. All of a sudden we're vulnerable and not in control and it becomes a crisis. If everyone's life was of paramount importance in this world then we'd have donated billions to stop wars, famines, provide aid for natural disasters. It's only because all of a sudden we're reminded of our own mortality that we freak out.

All those saying they have no wish to die or get ill, then I assume that none of you are overweight, or eat a lot of processed foods, or smoke? And you all take regular exercise? And don't drink? And that you never speed or cross the road apart from at a prescribed crossing point? The fact is that even if we all stay within our four walls every day and never leave the house, we can still die. People fall down the stairs, have heart attacks sitting on the sofa. One third or more of us will get cancer in our lives. Heart disease and strokes will claim many of us. Yet we don't all freak out and adopt super-healthy lifestyles to avoid this. So why, when for most people, something other than Covid is far more likely to kill you, do we have such an extreme reaction?

OP just decline the invite and say why.

Some parts of the restrictions will work, others will not. A gym that refused to close in Liverpool has been fined, and restaurants and pubs will comply much more because it will only take one person with a grudge to complain.

Are people honestly swallowing the idea that if we 'just' follow these rules it'll make everything ok for xmas? Really? Come on.

@Dozycuntlaters

I dont see why everyone cant just bloody follow the rules for a few weeks in the hope of having Christmas with our families

What about those who don't have families. What about the 95 year old I have befriended though age concern who faces another couple of weeks of total isolation if I can't go and see him. He has no family, he has nothing to look forward to through another lock down. What about those who need to go to work otherwise they face losing their houses. What about those who suffer from mental health conditions, what is it going to do to them. It's not so simple as stick to the rules. These restrictions will cause far more harm than covid will, but hey, as long as some people get to see their families for a jolly at christmas what does it matter.

What about support bubbles? They’re still allowed.

The fact is that even if we all stay within our four walls every day and never leave the house, we can still die. People fall down the stairs, have heart attacks sitting on the sofa. One third or more of us will get cancer in our lives. Heart disease and strokes will claim many of us. Yet we don't all freak out and adopt super-healthy lifestyles to avoid this. So why, when for most people, something other than Covid is far more likely to kill you, do we have such an extreme reaction?

Yes, you have a point (and you have a point about the West not giving a shit about the developing world).

But.

Accidents, heart attacks, strokes, cancer are not contagious. If I decide to have a rubbish diet, drink myself to death, do no exercise, that affects no one except me (apart from perhaps placing a burden on the NHS) and I am not going to pass my ill health on to anyone else.

This whole thing is so polarised now. You aren't going to change what I think and vice versa. You must do what you feel is right and I will do the same. I genuinely hope that I am wrong and that everything will be fine if large swathes of people decide to say fuck it and not go along with any more restrictions. Time will tell.

So why, when for most people, something other than Covid is far more likely to kill you, do we have such an extreme reaction?

I think if there were constant stories about road traffic accidents, a running tally in the media of all the people killed and injured in RTAs in different countries/regions, car accidents were the main topic of discussion in the media and wider society, governments were introducing emergency measures to restrict driving etc. people would be a lot more frightened of getting in a car and there would be a lot of shaming and calling people selfish for taking unnecessary car journeys. You could kill yourself or someone else every time you get behind the wheel and you are contributing to poor air quality that causes others suffering - that's a fact just as much as it's a fact that you could pass on this particular virus by meeting a friend face to face.

It's not the facts as much as the extreme level of exposure to the facts, the way they are presented and the way people around you seem to be responding.

@AcornAutumn I work in public health. Its a bit more scary when you see it close up. Yes, I do take flu precautions. Perhaps not as many as covid but I've had flu and know that I came out of it unscathed. Covid-19 is an unknown quantity.

Northern we’ve still got friends - mostly dad’s colleagues - on the front line. They’re not finding covid frightening but they are very concerned about a number of other things.

There’s obviously a range of opinion within that group too, of course. I just can’t imagine shutting off people’s lives because I might die of something. The IFR isn’t terribly alarming in my book.

I think the world is very overpopulated and we’ll see plenty of new diseases in my lifetime, I’m only surprised there’s not been more so far.

I really do feel like people are acting as infectious disease just arrived.

I use the NHS figures, I find them really good and clearly presented. The media aren’t terribly useful.