Liverpool Mayor acknowledges school Covid transmission

[Boredinautumn]

Please see the tweet from the mayor.

Acknowledging that schools in Liverpool have more cases than hospitality. So with the highest tiered area, schools have contributed to infection rise.

twitter.com/mayor_anderson/status/1316106358664695808?s=20

Me on Saturday to No 10 officials “Gyms are safer than supermarkets, more COVID-19 transmissions come from our schools and retail than Gyms” response “we are not closing schools or restricting retail, so we can only go for Hospitality & leisure.“
Government decision not ours!

@Autumngoldleaf

Our scientist s have clearly stated that school children cannot transmit the virus.

Dr Jenny Harries carefully explained that children are sat at a sd with seats facing forward. Teachers remain sd at the front.

There for it cannot be transmitted in school.

I had a good laugh at this, thank you.

We should be able to point out that transmission obviously happens in schools, without everyone taking it as a call to close schools.

We need to deal with the situation we are in, not an imaginary one where transmission doesn't occur in schools.

I wish the government would stop pretending that transmission doesn't occur in places they want to keep open. They have totally lost credibility and any hope of compliance. We have been treated like idiots from day one.

We can cope with some risk of transmission to keep the economy going, to keep education going and to mitigate mental health impacts. What we cannot continue to put up with is declarations that Black is white and diversions where we blame a section of the population.

AldiAisleofCrap: "No one has claim Covid19 can’t be transmitted in schools"

Erm, I think you'll find there were LOADS of MNers back a few months who were berating teachers for advising caution in re-opening schools, for EXACTLY that reason.

That's an important point.

Teachers' and school staff's mental health is being shot to pieces even more than it should be by the pure lies and deliberate obscuring of facts. It would be easier to deal with going to work every day if the risk we were taking were at least acknowledged.

@Venicelover

Does anyone really think schools are currently delivering a quality education?

Considering we’re teaching pretty much exactly the same as we would normally - yes.

@Danglingmod

Also the same Dr Jenny Harries who said that 5 year olds do not share food so it is okay to bring in lunch from home - but not pencils. She has literally never met a small child.

I was just about to say the same thing about Jenny. We have no SD between 90 children where I work as we are a year group bubble. We have been told to sit next to children to mark work with them and to hear them read but it’s all okay as long as we’re not next to the same child for 15 minutes or we could catch the virus. We’ve also been told to close our windows and door if the children get too cold as no coats allowed indoors. No ventilation and no distancing from children.

From the poster who said about quality education - we have been told to teach and carry on as normal. Lots of high pressure targets to boost children, children working in groups within lessons, an extended timetable. I’m hoping the children are teach are getting educational benefit from this as it’s taking its toll on the school staff and we desperately want the best for them.

I’m in Liverpool. It is utterly despicable the way people are behaving right now.

I’m in a particularly hot spot; I don’t think there’s been many instances in the primary school my youngest is at, but my twins have started secondary and they’ve got three days a week where they start late or finish early because teachers are not in. We’ve had texts about Y9 and 10 remote learning two days a week, and that yet another child has tested positive.

It is not going away and it won’t until people stop being so bloody bullish and selfish!

Considering we’re teaching pretty much exactly the same as we would normally - yes.

Possibly, in (some) Primary settings, but at Secondary level that is simply not the case.

Autumngoldleaf I wish I could show you pictures inside the school I work in so you could see that this is pure fantasy. My school is not unusual. Jenny Harries hasn’t got a clue about children in schools. I can’t decide whether she’s lying or just is ignorant of how children behave and the set up of a standard primary classroom.

I'm at a school In GM. The first three weeks there were 13 cases, 2 of which were staff. The fourth week we switched to contact tracing in schools. We then had 3 or 4 more cases in school but only sent home 20 to 30 kids at a time. Attendance was up what with people getting colds and needing tests due to non covid illness dying down.

As of Friday there were 4 cases in my dept alo g who tested positive over the weekend 5 from another dept. The start of his week there were 10 staff off. As of today that is 18. Overall teaching staff is just over 60

At least 6 have tested positive and possibly more but the extent of the outbreak is not being shared with us nor are parents aware. In the same time period 6 pupils have tested positive too.

Obviously this rate is far in excess of the community and the school is trying to stay open and I suppose if there are no more cases over the next week or so the isolating staff will be back in time for the next lot of staff to get ill. By Xmas staff absence will not be a problem as we will all have had it! It really does feel like no one cares how many staff contract the virus as long as school is open.

University numbers spiked when positive cases in uni halls led to widespread testing showing more than 50% (;and up to 80%) of cases were asymptomatic. If widespread testing happened for school outbreaks the numbers would be higher than they are though probably still not as bad as uni at kids. Lots of people claimed cases were caused by targeted testing but school outbreaks are not being investigated so the transmission in them is understated.

Not all schools are even following consistent approaches to bubbling classes either. My oldest has 4 different classrooms each day, as well as breaks and lunchtime. So not only is she mixing with 200 students from her year group in the classroom and break areas, but the whole of the in corridors as they move between lessons. Seating charts were made but then unruly kids have been moved to different classrooms in case that helps their behaviour. It's madness.

@Danglingmod

That's an important point.

Teachers' and school staff's mental health is being shot to pieces even more than it should be by the pure lies and deliberate obscuring of facts. It would be easier to deal with going to work every day if the risk we were taking were at least acknowledged.

There are a lot of people I work with who are teetering on the edge. It’s a combination of ridiculous targets and pressure from the school coupled with concerns about Covid and reduced support networks due to restrictions on household mixing.

The trouble is not many people talk about about the mental health of school staff as long as they are able to go to work and schools stay open at all costs. Good mental health is important for all of us - parents, children and school staff if we want to support children in the best way we can.

I know this problem isn’t unique to schools and lots of people in all sectors are suffering with their mental health but I wanted to pick it up as it’s most common to read about children and parents’ mental health on threads like this. (Also many teachers are parents so can see this in both sides.)

So, how do we pay for these schools if all these hospitality businesses go bust and tax receipts are down?

Also, why this obsession with full time only? So many countries are on blended learning, especially for older children.

Keeping schools open at all costs is going to cost jobs I sectors that are being sacrificed to unnecessarily keep high schools and sixth form full time open for face to face teaching.

Surely both parents losing their jobs and ending up on the poverty line is much more damaging to children than part time schooling.

@Venicelover

Considering we’re teaching pretty much exactly the same as we would normally - yes.

Possibly, in (some) Primary settings, but at Secondary level that is simply not the case.

Your post just said “schools”.

Jenny Harries might be great at science but she apparently knows fuck all about children in schools.

^ This

What do you want them to do?

I don't want them to close schools, I just want them to stop lying, misleading and keeping quiet about data which doesn'tsuit their narrative. It needs to be out in the open and clear to everyone that there is no effective social distancing in classrooms, and that kids, especially teenagers who are pretty much adults, can and do pass on the virus.

They need to admit : Yes we know schools aren't at all 'Covid secure', but we need to keep them open anyway. Sorry.

@year5teacher

Be grateful you teach primary. Secondary is unbearable at the moment. I work in an Outstanding school with high staff morale and well being and a great head.

We are all crumbling under the added weight of the restrictions (not having a room of your own, carrying around everything in trollers, criss crossing the school up to five times a day, added duties, wild behaviour issues, constant work setting for absent kids).

Have a bit of sympathy instead of going straight for the snarky answer.

Given that there is absolutely no guarantee of a vaccine anytime soon - nor indeed anytime at all, even Bojo admitted that the other day - I think we have to try to keep education going. For at least primary school aged children I personally believe that requires face to face teaching, probably the younger end of high school too. Even at the older end, many courses have a strong practical element that can't be replicated at home.

I do think teachers should be in decent masks if they wish even though that's not optimal for young kids. Certainly up here the few larger school clusters have been very adult centric - one school closed after (iirc) 27 cases but 22 were teachers, 3 adult community contacts, 2 children. It does seem from almost everything I have read that it does not transmit easily amongst or from children (adolescents more variable and stats lumping them with uni age isn't helping)

The whole thing is a shitshow though, but given there is no certainty about it going away whether naturally or via vaccination then we have to find some balance of living with it. That means trading off different harms- economic, educational, health. For me education is a priority for continuing but that won't be the same for others.

The way they present stats isn't entirely helpful either. Saying there's more cases from schools vs pubs doesn't in any way make a useful comparison as there's no indication there of the size of at risk population or the time spent. It may well be that those numbers mean that (totally made up numerical examples) you have say a 0.001% chance of catching covid for every hour a mid teen/adult spends in a school, vs 0.05% for every hour in a pub...but there are more people spending more hours in school, hence higher absolute numbers. Likewise the supermarkets vs gyms example cited - many more people visit supermarkets than gyms especially just now.

I work in a secondary school... last week there was one case in Y11, this week there are 6 more at least half of that year group are isolating. Thats close to 140 students home learning til after half term.

Anyone who thinks school students spend all day social distancing, wearing masks, sitting side by side are delusional!! What do you think happens at break and lunch, or in corridors? They can’t be kept at their desks sitting still and not moving from 8 til 4 - that’s inhumane.

@Autumngoldleaf

was she being sarcastic or gullible.. because that is what she said.

IMO she was being disingenuous. I am generally supportive of SAGE but they do seem to wheel Harries out to say things that end up being, erm, false.

So what’s the answer! Carry on moaning about everything and keep the schools open

Or close the schools, so the other half of MN can moan?

@BelleSausage
Primary isn't exactly a bundle of laughs either!
Same children all day, no possibility of social distancing at all, cleaning toilets 4 times a day, playground duty everyday, lunchtimes spent with the children, if you're lucky you might get 20 minutes break. We're still having to change soiled children, deal with falls and scrapes, symptomatic children set in because " it's only a cough and I need to go to work", parents refusing to collect children because they are busy! We had to barricade the door today as a parent insisted on bringing a child to school with a hacking cough and obvious fever.
Each school phase has it's own challenges!

Sorry I was being utterly factious! I think her advice is appalling and I would like to see her come into schools and move around the classroom and schools like teachers have too!

Oh the relief autumn 😀

If she is a medic she would have sworn oaths to be honorable.

Schools - secondary schools should move to blended learning, thin out the school population create more space and secondary children do not need to be watched. They can be chased up if they are not on line just as they would be if they were not physically in school.

There should be a massive drive to make each school, each teacher at least air the classrooms like Germany = the head should be spot checking to make sure this adhered too and not just forgotten because the teacher is cold. Ventilation should be pushed, masks - absolutely non negotiable -unless genuinely exempt, masks given out pre lesson with gel, put in special waste after class then gel hands, proper backing up of these measures. ...constant reminders of why we are doing it ! Very strict sending home of repeat mask offenders - constant reminders to make dc cover up when sneezing.
The problems come with lax and loose rules that are softly enforced to the dc - teachers undermining other teachers...

There should be a firm line. Proper staggered start times and lunch times, we had utter queues and chaos coming into secondary it was a joke.

But I strongly feel some sort of mini lock down should happen first.